Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe

OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

> OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.

As an example, I have added Toronto to the globe, which I believe is the
location of our server, and where D'Arcy lives.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
>
> As an example, I have added Toronto to the globe, which I believe is the
> location of our server, and where D'Arcy lives.

Would a 'flat-map' be more friendly? Just looking at it right now, and
I'm on a T1 at work, and its "stalled"...and altho I can see the red dot
around Toronto, its "Faint"...

Marc G. Fournier
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

> On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> >
> > As an example, I have added Toronto to the globe, which I believe is the
> > location of our server, and where D'Arcy lives.
>
> Would a 'flat-map' be more friendly? Just looking at it right now, and
> I'm on a T1 at work, and its "stalled"...and altho I can see the red dot
> around Toronto, its "Faint"...

That may be better. I can make it larger, or can someone send me a flat
earth map to use.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Wht not collect the lon and lat for xearth? Then you can stick the
developers name around the red circle.

-Egon

On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

> On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> >
> > As an example, I have added Toronto to the globe, which I believe is the
> > location of our server, and where D'Arcy lives.
>
> Would a 'flat-map' be more friendly? Just looking at it right now, and
> I'm on a T1 at work, and its "stalled"...and altho I can see the red dot
> around Toronto, its "Faint"...
>
> Marc G. Fournier
> Systems Administrator @ hub.org
> primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org
>
>
>

On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Egon Schmid wrote:

> Wht not collect the lon and lat for xearth? Then you can stick the
> developers name around the red circle.

Want to build up a sample of what you are proposing and let us see it?

>
> -Egon
>
> On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >
> > > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> > > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> > >
> > > As an example, I have added Toronto to the globe, which I believe is the
> > > location of our server, and where D'Arcy lives.
> >
> > Would a 'flat-map' be more friendly? Just looking at it right now, and
> > I'm on a T1 at work, and its "stalled"...and altho I can see the red dot
> > around Toronto, its "Faint"...
> >
> > Marc G. Fournier
> > Systems Administrator @ hub.org
> > primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org
> >
> >
> >
>

Marc G. Fournier
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

On 08-Mar-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Egon Schmid wrote:
>
>> Wht not collect the lon and lat for xearth? Then you can stick the
>> developers name around the red circle.
>
> Want to build up a sample of what you are proposing and let us see it?

Look at the national directory on camping-usa. The map was drawn with
lon-lat coordinates for the US and each state and the red dots were put
in place with lon-lat coords. (The clickable map translates the XY to
lon-lat) I don't know how you'd put names in it, tho, without making
the image rather large.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================

> On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Egon Schmid wrote:
>
> > Wht not collect the lon and lat for xearth? Then you can stick the
> > developers name around the red circle.
>
> Want to build up a sample of what you are proposing and let us see it?

Yes, I can do that with xearth. Very easy. But xearth produces a very
large image, not really proper for a browser, unless we forget the
rotation, and just grab western and eastern hemisphere images and put
the names on there.

With names, that is going to be a large image. Do we want that?

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

I have seen xearth on my Debian system with the most Debian maintainers
spread around the globe. I think there is a flag for project so no htere
is no need to put western and eastern hemispheres together. xearth is
trimmed to run in a X Windows background.

-Egon

On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> > On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Egon Schmid wrote:
> >
> > > Wht not collect the lon and lat for xearth? Then you can stick the
> > > developers name around the red circle.
> >
> > Want to build up a sample of what you are proposing and let us see it?
>
> Yes, I can do that with xearth. Very easy. But xearth produces a very
> large image, not really proper for a browser, unless we forget the
> rotation, and just grab western and eastern hemisphere images and put
> the names on there.
>
> With names, that is going to be a large image. Do we want that?
>
> --
> Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
> maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
> + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
> + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
>

You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
country or whatnot...

On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

>
> On 08-Mar-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> > On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Egon Schmid wrote:
> >
> >> Wht not collect the lon and lat for xearth? Then you can stick the
> >> developers name around the red circle.
> >
> > Want to build up a sample of what you are proposing and let us see it?
>
> Look at the national directory on camping-usa. The map was drawn with
> lon-lat coordinates for the US and each state and the red dots were put
> in place with lon-lat coords. (The clickable map translates the XY to
> lon-lat) I don't know how you'd put names in it, tho, without making
> the image rather large.
>
> Vince.
> --
> ==========================================================================
> Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com flame-mail: /dev/null
> # include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
> Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
> Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
> ==========================================================================
>
>

Marc G. Fournier
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

On 08-Mar-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote:
>
> You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> country or whatnot...

'cept xearth isn't using lon/lat - unless it's changed from the v1.0 source
I have here (from the 2.2.8 ports collection CD).

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================

Thus spake Bruce Momjian
> > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
>
> As an example, I have added Toronto to the globe, which I believe is the
> location of our server, and where D'Arcy lives.

Hmmm. I tried to go there but for some reason I keep getting bounced
to Saskatchewan which I assume doesn't have the updates yet. Any idea
why I don't go to the main site? After all, I'm on the same LAN basically.
It seems silly to go out to the net to a mirror.

--
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy(at){druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on
+1 416 424 2871 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.

> Thus spake Bruce Momjian
> > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> >
> > As an example, I have added Toronto to the globe, which I believe is the
> > location of our server, and where D'Arcy lives.
>
> Hmmm. I tried to go there but for some reason I keep getting bounced
> to Saskatchewan which I assume doesn't have the updates yet. Any idea
> why I don't go to the main site? After all, I'm on the same LAN basically.
> It seems silly to go out to the net to a mirror.

Yes. If you do:

http://www.postgresql.org/index.html

you are forced to the main site. Marc told me this a while ago.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:

> Thus spake Bruce Momjian
> > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> >
> > As an example, I have added Toronto to the globe, which I believe is the
> > location of our server, and where D'Arcy lives.
>
> Hmmm. I tried to go there but for some reason I keep getting bounced
> to Saskatchewan which I assume doesn't have the updates yet. Any idea
> why I don't go to the main site? After all, I'm on the same LAN basically.
> It seems silly to go out to the net to a mirror.

Just the way the redirect software is setup...you can cheat it though:

http://www.postgresql.org/index.html

:)

Marc G. Fournier
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

> OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.

OK, larger dots. I added a dot for myself and Tom Lane. Europe will be
all red once I am done. Things are very imprecise at that size.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

> OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.

OK, now the dot is huge. Marc, Tom Lane, and I fit in the same dot.
Looks good, though.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

> > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
>
> OK, now the dot is huge. Marc, Tom Lane, and I fit in the same dot.
> Looks good, though.
>

No, Toronto/D'Arch, Tom Lane, and I are in the same dot. Marc gets his
on more east than us.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

> OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.

OK, I have big dots for almost everyone. How does it look. The moving
of the dots is because I was sloppy, but I just wanted to do it quick to
see how it looks.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

> You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> country or whatnot...

Alternatively you might put a map behind it and use some
Jscript to write the names into the status line when the
pointer is over the dots.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
> > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > country or whatnot...
>
> Alternatively you might put a map behind it and use some
> Jscript to write the names into the status line when the
> pointer is over the dots.

As long as we're thinking JScript, why not pop up the name on the
mouseover? Maybe a little flag popping up on the map.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================

On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
> > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > country or whatnot...
>
> Alternatively you might put a map behind it and use some
> Jscript to write the names into the status line when the
> pointer is over the dots.

Oh, I like that one...anyone know Javascript? :)

Marc G. Fournier
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
>
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> >
> > > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > > country or whatnot...
> >
> > Alternatively you might put a map behind it and use some
> > Jscript to write the names into the status line when the
> > pointer is over the dots.
>
> As long as we're thinking JScript, why not pop up the name on the
> mouseover? Maybe a little flag popping up on the map.

Hrmmmm...isn't that what he said? *grin*

How abuot this one...a world map that when you go over a country, it pops
up an expanded view of that country so that the dots aren't so
concentrated? :)

Marc G. Fournier
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> >
> > > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > >
> > > > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > > > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > > > country or whatnot...
> > >
> > > Alternatively you might put a map behind it and use some
> > > Jscript to write the names into the status line when the
> > > pointer is over the dots.
> >
> > As long as we're thinking JScript, why not pop up the name on the
> > mouseover? Maybe a little flag popping up on the map.
>
> Hrmmmm...isn't that what he said? *grin*

Nope. Status line is at the bottom of the browser. I meant for the name
to pop up (or a flag to pop up) in the actual image.

>
> How abuot this one...a world map that when you go over a country, it pops
> up an expanded view of that country so that the dots aren't so
> concentrated? :)

Hmmmmm. *wheels turning*

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================

On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
>
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> >
> > > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > > country or whatnot...
> >
> > Alternatively you might put a map behind it and use some
> > Jscript to write the names into the status line when the
> > pointer is over the dots.
>
> Oh, I like that one...anyone know Javascript? :)

yep. Anyone know of a tool in unix that splits up a gif into many
smaller squares (as opposed to manually cropping)?

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================

> On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
>
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> >
> > > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > > country or whatnot...
> >
> > Alternatively you might put a map behind it and use some
> > Jscript to write the names into the status line when the
> > pointer is over the dots.
>
> Oh, I like that one...anyone know Javascript? :)

No.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

> OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.

New map. Gimp Nova dots. You like?

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

> > Hrmmmm...isn't that what he said? *grin*
>
> Nope. Status line is at the bottom of the browser. I meant for the name
> to pop up (or a flag to pop up) in the actual image.

Right - and popping up in the image is better :-)

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

>
> On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> >
> > > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > >
> > > > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > > > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > > > country or whatnot...
> > >
> > > Alternatively you might put a map behind it and use some
> > > Jscript to write the names into the status line when the
> > > pointer is over the dots.
> >
> > Oh, I like that one...anyone know Javascript? :)
>
> yep. Anyone know of a tool in unix that splits up a gif into many
> smaller squares (as opposed to manually cropping)?

A little script with pbm tools should do.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

>
> > On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> >
> > > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > >
> > > > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > > > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > > > country or whatnot...
> > >
> > > Alternatively you might put a map behind it and use some
> > > Jscript to write the names into the status line when the
> > > pointer is over the dots.
> >
> > Oh, I like that one...anyone know Javascript? :)
>
> No.

Dunno if that's possible (popping something up in an image)
with Javascript. Maybe that must be done in an applet. Or
what Venice suggested, splitting up the image into hundred's
of peaces, putting the names into the ALT attributes and let
the browser do it. For sake not every browser show's the ALT
text when you hold the pointer over an image.

Maybe I should do some tests.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
>
> New map. Gimp Nova dots. You like?
>

Looks great!!

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================

Definitely doable...see 'http://www.nova-scotia.org', a site we played
with that used javascript...

On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> >
> > > On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> > >
> > > > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > > > > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > > > > country or whatnot...
> > > >
> > > > Alternatively you might put a map behind it and use some
> > > > Jscript to write the names into the status line when the
> > > > pointer is over the dots.
> > >
> > > Oh, I like that one...anyone know Javascript? :)
> >
> > No.
>
> Dunno if that's possible (popping something up in an image)
> with Javascript. Maybe that must be done in an applet. Or
> what Venice suggested, splitting up the image into hundred's
> of peaces, putting the names into the ALT attributes and let
> the browser do it. For sake not every browser show's the ALT
> text when you hold the pointer over an image.
>
> Maybe I should do some tests.
>
>
> Jan
>
> --
>
> #======================================================================#
> # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
> # Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
> #======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #
>
>

Marc G. Fournier
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> >
> > New map. Gimp Nova dots. You like?
> >
>
> Looks great!!

Hate to be the wet blanket...throw another one of those 'Nova dots' onto
Europe, and Europe will sink :( It sort of reminds me of those old movies
dealing with Nuclear WAr..."New Brunswick, Canada...totally wiped' out,
Maine, USA...like it never existed, England...WWI and WWII failed, where
PostgreSQL succeseds" *grin*

Marc G. Fournier
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

>
> Definitely doable...see 'http://www.nova-scotia.org', a site we played
> with that used javascript...

And I just found a nifty little js library for doing popups. Should have
a simple demo available shortly of index.html's frames.

Vince.
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> On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >
> > > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> > > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> > >
> > > New map. Gimp Nova dots. You like?
> > >
> >
> > Looks great!!
>
> Hate to be the wet blanket...throw another one of those 'Nova dots' onto
> Europe, and Europe will sink :( It sort of reminds me of those old movies
> dealing with Nuclear WAr..."New Brunswick, Canada...totally wiped' out,
> Maine, USA...like it never existed, England...WWI and WWII failed, where
> PostgreSQL succeseds" *grin*

OK, smaller stars, and fewer. Should I continue in this direction, or
try something else?

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Thus spake Bruce Momjian
> > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
>
> New map. Gimp Nova dots. You like?

Nice. Now we just need to fill it in. I know you have mine but just to
confirm:

43 27 02 N / 79 20 44 W

--
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy(at){druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on
+1 416 424 2871 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.

On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > >
> > > > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> > > > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> > > >
> > > > New map. Gimp Nova dots. You like?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Looks great!!
> >
> > Hate to be the wet blanket...throw another one of those 'Nova dots' onto
> > Europe, and Europe will sink :( It sort of reminds me of those old movies
> > dealing with Nuclear WAr..."New Brunswick, Canada...totally wiped' out,
> > Maine, USA...like it never existed, England...WWI and WWII failed, where
> > PostgreSQL succeseds" *grin*
>
> OK, smaller stars, and fewer. Should I continue in this direction, or
> try something else?

I'd say continue, but go with "points" vs "dabs"...enough ppl get added to
that globe, there will be so much overlap of the 'dabs' that the country
borders will be indistinguishable :)

Marc G. Fournier
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

> > OK, smaller stars, and fewer. Should I continue in this direction, or
> > try something else?
>
> I'd say continue, but go with "points" vs "dabs"...enough ppl get added to
> that globe, there will be so much overlap of the 'dabs' that the country
> borders will be indistinguishable :)
>

Amazing how much better the blurred dots look compared to the regular
dots. Points are too small to see. If we get more people, I will
shrink the dots.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
>
> >
> > Definitely doable...see 'http://www.nova-scotia.org', a site we played
> > with that used javascript...
>
> And I just found a nifty little js library for doing popups. Should have
> a simple demo available shortly of index.html's frames.

Ok try this. I haven't tried it on a graphic yet, that'll be next. I
was just proving it out.

http://www.postgresql.org/~vev/index.html

Mouseover on the left frame.

Vince.
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# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
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==========================================================================

> On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Definitely doable...see 'http://www.nova-scotia.org', a site we played
> > > with that used javascript...
> >
> > And I just found a nifty little js library for doing popups. Should have
> > a simple demo available shortly of index.html's frames.
>
> Ok try this. I haven't tried it on a graphic yet, that'll be next. I
> was just proving it out.
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/~vev/index.html
>
> Mouseover on the left frame.

Totally cool.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

>
> > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > >
> > > > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page. After I
> > > > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> > > >
> > > > New map. Gimp Nova dots. You like?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Looks great!!
> >
> > Hate to be the wet blanket...throw another one of those 'Nova dots' onto
> > Europe, and Europe will sink :( It sort of reminds me of those old movies
> > dealing with Nuclear WAr..."New Brunswick, Canada...totally wiped' out,
> > Maine, USA...like it never existed, England...WWI and WWII failed, where
> > PostgreSQL succeseds" *grin*
>
> OK, smaller stars, and fewer. Should I continue in this direction, or
> try something else?

Actually I'm hacking a little around. Up to now I've
extracted the coords of the world map out of xearth and
produced a 600x250 GIF as a flat map. Having only a few
colors it's about 6K small.

Now I'm looking for spec's on animated GIF's. If I finally
understand how they are created, I could build a little
Tcl/Tk application where you can enter location (long/lat or
lookup by city) and the text to popup and Tk will create an
animated GIF where the locations are small blinking dot's
plus the required image map etc.

Just give me another day for an example.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

> > Ok try this. I haven't tried it on a graphic yet, that'll be next. I
> > was just proving it out.
> >
> > http://www.postgresql.org/~vev/index.html
> >
> > Mouseover on the left frame.
>
> Totally cool.

What about this one:

http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/test.html

I've used xearth's coords for the map (a little Tcl/Tk script
did it) and GIFmerge to combine two ones. Resulting gif is
6275 bytes!

Then I've added overlib (thanks Venice). Only Bruce and me
are on the map. Finally (if we choose it) I'll create the
mentioned Tk application to manage all the dot's and the
underlying map.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

> > > Ok try this. I haven't tried it on a graphic yet, that'll be next. I
> > > was just proving it out.
> > >
> > > http://www.postgresql.org/~vev/index.html
> > >
> > > Mouseover on the left frame.
> >
> > Totally cool.
>
> What about this one:
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/test.html
>
> I've used xearth's coords for the map (a little Tcl/Tk script
> did it) and GIFmerge to combine two ones. Resulting gif is
> 6275 bytes!
>
> Then I've added overlib (thanks Venice). Only Bruce and me
> are on the map. Finally (if we choose it) I'll create the
> mentioned Tk application to manage all the dot's and the
> underlying map.

I like the dots. Perhaps larger.

Can you do longitute/latitude with that map. Is it linear in both
directions. Usually such linear maps look terrible because Greenland
and Northern Canada are huge. Don't tell me you compensated for it in
the tcl code.

Can you use the more attractive map I am using. Your blinking dots and
highlighted names are certainly better than my map.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

On 10-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
> What about this one:
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/test.html
>
> I've used xearth's coords for the map (a little Tcl/Tk script
> did it) and GIFmerge to combine two ones. Resulting gif is
> 6275 bytes!
>
> Then I've added overlib (thanks Venice). Only Bruce and me
> are on the map. Finally (if we choose it) I'll create the
> mentioned Tk application to manage all the dot's and the
> underlying map.

Looks like you discovered overlib would do it's popups on top of an
image while I was trying to figure out what happened to Netscape's
no longer showing the XY coords of an imagemap! Looks/works great,
dots could be just a touch bigger, tho.

Vince.
--
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# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
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==========================================================================

> >
> > What about this one:
> >
> > http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/test.html
> >
>
> I like the dots. Perhaps larger.

Larger dots, larger image. It's 10595 bytes now.

>
> Can you do longitute/latitude with that map. Is it linear in both
> directions. Usually such linear maps look terrible because Greenland
> and Northern Canada are huge. Don't tell me you compensated for it in
> the tcl code.

The map was draw using the coordinates from xearth. So it is
long/lat based and thus I can.

It isn't linear in the x-direction. It uses a sine-function
to shrink the X down the farer it's away from 0 meridian.

Currently it isn't using the latitude to give it an ellipsian
touch. But I could modify the algorithm that converts from
xearth's x,y,z coordinates to the map's x,y.

>
> Can you use the more attractive map I am using. Your blinking dots and
> highlighted names are certainly better than my map.

That would loose the long/lat capability (except it already
has it). And it would blow up the image size again, because
for the animation at least two different gifs must be in it.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

> > directions. Usually such linear maps look terrible because Greenland
> > and Northern Canada are huge. Don't tell me you compensated for it in
> > the tcl code.
>

Finally I've increased the shrink factor a little. Looks
better IMHO.

Don't know how to put more color on it without adding tons of
more coordinate data. Maybe something like a transparent
looking "Postgres" text over it has more effect than any
color. I'll check, but it's enough for today. I'm off
catching some zzzzzzzz's.

BTW: Did you notice that the point's are clickable?

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

> > > directions. Usually such linear maps look terrible because Greenland
> > > and Northern Canada are huge. Don't tell me you compensated for it in
> > > the tcl code.
> >
>
> Finally I've increased the shrink factor a little. Looks
> better IMHO.
>
> Don't know how to put more color on it without adding tons of
> more coordinate data. Maybe something like a transparent
> looking "Postgres" text over it has more effect than any
> color. I'll check, but it's enough for today. I'm off
> catching some zzzzzzzz's.
>
> BTW: Did you notice that the point's are clickable?

I click on the point, and my Netscape 4.5 crashes.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

>
> > > > directions. Usually such linear maps look terrible because Greenland
> > > > and Northern Canada are huge. Don't tell me you compensated for it in
> > > > the tcl code.
> > >
> >
> > Finally I've increased the shrink factor a little. Looks
> > better IMHO.
> >
> > Don't know how to put more color on it without adding tons of
> > more coordinate data. Maybe something like a transparent
> > looking "Postgres" text over it has more effect than any
> > color. I'll check, but it's enough for today. I'm off
> > catching some zzzzzzzz's.
> >
> > BTW: Did you notice that the point's are clickable?
>
> I click on the point, and my Netscape 4.5 crashes.

Uh?

There's simply a mailto: href on them. My Netscape 4.05 pops
up the Mail window then. Maybe there's something wrong with
the href because the <> in it aren't escaped. But that
shouldn't cause Netscape to crash.

What happens if you use a normal mailto: link?

Puzzled, Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

> > I click on the point, and my Netscape 4.5 crashes.
>
> Uh?
>
> There's simply a mailto: href on them. My Netscape 4.05 pops
> up the Mail window then. Maybe there's something wrong with
> the href because the <> in it aren't escaped. But that
> shouldn't cause Netscape to crash.
>
> What happens if you use a normal mailto: link?

That explains it. Mailto crashes unless the mail window has already
been opened earlier. Good idea.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

On 10-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
>> > directions. Usually such linear maps look terrible because Greenland
>> > and Northern Canada are huge. Don't tell me you compensated for it in
>> > the tcl code.
>>
>
> Finally I've increased the shrink factor a little. Looks
> better IMHO.
>
> Don't know how to put more color on it without adding tons of
> more coordinate data. Maybe something like a transparent
> looking "Postgres" text over it has more effect than any
> color. I'll check, but it's enough for today. I'm off
> catching some zzzzzzzz's.
>
> BTW: Did you notice that the point's are clickable?

Yeah, for some reason mailto: crashes my browser (netscape 4.5). I think
it's got something to do with nothing being defined for any servers or
something like that.

Vince.
--
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# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
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==========================================================================

It is a (un)known problem with NS 4.5. Marc had this pleasure a couple of
days before also.

BTW: xearth rotates by itself in real time and there are a lot of flags to
influence the behaviour and appearance.

-Egon

On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

> Yeah, for some reason mailto: crashes my browser (netscape 4.5). I think
> it's got something to do with nothing being defined for any servers or
> something like that.
>
> Vince.

On 10-Mar-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
>> > I click on the point, and my Netscape 4.5 crashes.
>>
>> Uh?
>>
>> There's simply a mailto: href on them. My Netscape 4.05 pops
>> up the Mail window then. Maybe there's something wrong with
>> the href because the <> in it aren't escaped. But that
>> shouldn't cause Netscape to crash.
>>
>> What happens if you use a normal mailto: link?
>
> That explains it. Mailto crashes unless the mail window has already
> been opened earlier. Good idea.

I read on one of the FreeBSD lists today that 4.51 (linux version) still
crashes, so it's not fixed yet.

Vince.
--
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==========================================================================

>
> On 10-Mar-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >> > I click on the point, and my Netscape 4.5 crashes.
> >>
> >> Uh?
> >>
> >> There's simply a mailto: href on them. My Netscape 4.05 pops
> >> up the Mail window then. Maybe there's something wrong with
> >> the href because the <> in it aren't escaped. But that
> >> shouldn't cause Netscape to crash.
> >>
> >> What happens if you use a normal mailto: link?
> >
> > That explains it. Mailto crashes unless the mail window has already
> > been opened earlier. Good idea.
>
> I read on one of the FreeBSD lists today that 4.51 (linux version) still
> crashes, so it's not fixed yet.

Didn't know 4.51 was out yet. Downloading now. Thanks.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Bruce Momjian <maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us> writes:

> Can you do longitute/latitude with that map. Is it linear in both
> directions. Usually such linear maps look terrible because Greenland
> and Northern Canada are huge. Don't tell me you compensated for it in
> the tcl code.

I also have a map program I wrote up for an IRC network.

See http://www.sorcery.net/maps/ for that implementation. It could
use a database backend easily, but right now it uses a combination of
xearth, fly (a gif editing scripting language) and Perl script to
write the fly script.

--Michael

On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> > > Ok try this. I haven't tried it on a graphic yet, that'll be next. I
> > > was just proving it out.
> > >
> > > http://www.postgresql.org/~vev/index.html
> > >
> > > Mouseover on the left frame.
> >
> > Totally cool.
>
> What about this one:
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/test.html

This is *totally* cool...

Marc G. Fournier
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> > > directions. Usually such linear maps look terrible because Greenland
> > > and Northern Canada are huge. Don't tell me you compensated for it in
> > > the tcl code.
> >
>
> Finally I've increased the shrink factor a little. Looks
> better IMHO.
>
> Don't know how to put more color on it without adding tons of
> more coordinate data. Maybe something like a transparent
> looking "Postgres" text over it has more effect than any
> color. I'll check, but it's enough for today. I'm off
> catching some zzzzzzzz's.
>
> BTW: Did you notice that the point's are clickable?

Erk...just tried that and it crashed my netscape :)

Marc G. Fournier
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> Uh?
>
> There's simply a mailto: href on them. My Netscape 4.05 pops
> up the Mail window then. Maybe there's something wrong with
> the href because the <> in it aren't escaped. But that
> shouldn't cause Netscape to crash.
>
> What happens if you use a normal mailto: link?

Crashes also...a bug in 4.5...

Marc G. Fournier
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

The Hermit Hacker wrote:
>
> On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
>
> >
> > What about this one:
> >
> > http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/test.html
>
> This is *totally* cool...

I like this too.

Vadim

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
>
> > > > Ok try this. I haven't tried it on a graphic yet, that'll be next. I
> > > > was just proving it out.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.postgresql.org/~vev/index.html
> > > >
> > > > Mouseover on the left frame.
> > >
> > > Totally cool.
> >
> > What about this one:
> >
> > http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/test.html
>
> This is *totally* cool...

And now DEEP FROZEN :-)

http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
-------------------------------------------

Well, the image is about 85K now (look at it before you
reply). But I think it's one that is worth the bandwidth - a
MUST SEE.

Bruce: is that ATTRACTIVE enough for you?

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

Jan Wieck wrote:
> http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html

It's pretty neet. I'd remove the white flush by Flordia,
perhaps moving it to a corner and introducing faint
shadows on the lettering.

:) Clark

> > This is *totally* cool...
>
> And now DEEP FROZEN :-)
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> -------------------------------------------
>
> Well, the image is about 85K now (look at it before you
> reply). But I think it's one that is worth the bandwidth - a
> MUST SEE.
>
> Bruce: is that ATTRACTIVE enough for you?

Yes, certainly deep frozen. Winner.

Comments:

Use as many colors as you can. No problem with many colors.

Much better than mine.

Can you darken the PostgreSQL a little bit more, so the globe
stands out a little more?

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

>
> Jan Wieck wrote:
> > http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
>
> It's pretty neet. I'd remove the white flush by Flordia,
> perhaps moving it to a corner and introducing faint
> shadows on the lettering.
>
> :) Clark
>

I can't. I haven't created the background image and don't
know who did or how.

OTOH it is

1. At Florida - a sunny state.

2. Near the location of hub.org, where OUR sun is shining.

So it is IMHO exactly where is should be.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

> >
> > Jan Wieck wrote:
> > > http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> >
> > It's pretty neet. I'd remove the white flush by Flordia,
> > perhaps moving it to a corner and introducing faint
> > shadows on the lettering.
> >
> > :) Clark
> >
>
> I can't. I haven't created the background image and don't
> know who did or how.
>
> OTOH it is
>
> 1. At Florida - a sunny state.
>
> 2. Near the location of hub.org, where OUR sun is shining.
>
> So it is IMHO exactly where is should be.

Actually, it is closest to me. Enough said. :-)

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> >
> > Jan Wieck wrote:
> > > http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> >
> > It's pretty neet. I'd remove the white flush by Flordia,
> > perhaps moving it to a corner and introducing faint
> > shadows on the lettering.
> >
> > :) Clark
> >
>
> I can't. I haven't created the background image and don't
> know who did or how.
>
> OTOH it is
>
> 1. At Florida - a sunny state.
>
> 2. Near the location of hub.org, where OUR sun is shining.
>
> So it is IMHO exactly where is should be.

The sun? Huh. I thought it was a hurricane hitting the east coast. :)

Looks good, Jan!

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================

>
> > > This is *totally* cool...
> >
> > And now DEEP FROZEN :-)
> >
> > http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> > -------------------------------------------
> >
> > Well, the image is about 85K now (look at it before you
> > reply). But I think it's one that is worth the bandwidth - a
> > MUST SEE.
> >
> > Bruce: is that ATTRACTIVE enough for you?
>
> Yes, certainly deep frozen. Winner.
>
> Comments:
>
> Use as many colors as you can. No problem with many colors.

Tried to use 250 colors, but that blows the image up to 150K
and more important, causes the image sometimes to flicker on
my 200MHz Pentium notebook. So back to 60 colors.

>
> Much better than mine.

Tnx.

>
> Can you darken the PostgreSQL a little bit more, so the globe
> stands out a little more?

Done - the other way round. Darken the map and lighten the
PostgreSQL. You're right, look's better.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

Jan Wieck wrote:
>
>
> And now DEEP FROZEN :-)
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> -------------------------------------------

Yes! Cool!!!

Vadim

>
> Jan Wieck wrote:
> >
> >
> > And now DEEP FROZEN :-)
> >
> > http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> > -------------------------------------------
>
> Yes! Cool!!!
>
> Vadim
>

Just put in another version. This time, all dot's are red but
they flash frequently when displayed in a Netscape.

The advantage is that the image is static and the flashes are
done with JavaScript. So the image could get highest quality
and become bigger and finally placed as jpeg.

For sake I haven't found out how to determine the absolute
position of an image unter MS IE4 yet. So they are simply
static there. Does anyone know how to do that?

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

On 12-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
>>
> Just put in another version. This time, all dot's are red but
> they flash frequently when displayed in a Netscape.
>
> The advantage is that the image is static and the flashes are
> done with JavaScript. So the image could get highest quality
> and become bigger and finally placed as jpeg.
>
> For sake I haven't found out how to determine the absolute
> position of an image unter MS IE4 yet. So they are simply
> static there. Does anyone know how to do that?

Now that's slick!

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================

> > For sake I haven't found out how to determine the absolute
> > position of an image unter MS IE4 yet. So they are simply
> > static there. Does anyone know how to do that?
>
> Now that's slick!
>

Yes. Looks like stars. Also, I have added an office knick-knacks link
to my personal web page. See the signature.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

>
>
> On 12-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
> >>
> > Just put in another version. This time, all dot's are red but
> > they flash frequently when displayed in a Netscape.
> >
> > The advantage is that the image is static and the flashes are
> > done with JavaScript. So the image could get highest quality
> > and become bigger and finally placed as jpeg.
> >
> > For sake I haven't found out how to determine the absolute
> > position of an image unter MS IE4 yet. So they are simply
> > static there. Does anyone know how to do that?
>
> Now that's slick!

I've installed that one with different coloured flashes now
on the main site developers page. The map image is now
700x270 in jpeg and with a good quality (95% - in lower
quality the red dots get too diffuse).

I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.

Does anyone have problems with it?

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

> I've installed that one with different coloured flashes now
> on the main site developers page. The map image is now
> 700x270 in jpeg and with a good quality (95% - in lower
> quality the red dots get too diffuse).
>
> I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.
>
> Does anyone have problems with it?

Great. Now I can see where everyone is.

I don't think I like the fact the image is in its own frame. Makes the
list of developers very small. Was this necessary to get it working
properly? Also, what does it look like _without_ the PostgreSQL image
merged into it. Is it too plain?

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

>
> > I've installed that one with different coloured flashes now
> > on the main site developers page. The map image is now
> > 700x270 in jpeg and with a good quality (95% - in lower
> > quality the red dots get too diffuse).
> >
> > I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.
> >
> > Does anyone have problems with it?
>
> Great. Now I can see where everyone is.
>
> I don't think I like the fact the image is in its own frame. Makes the
> list of developers very small. Was this necessary to get it working
> properly? Also, what does it look like _without_ the PostgreSQL image
> merged into it. Is it too plain?

I didn't like it too, but in it was necessary. Without
dropping it into it's own frame I couldn't set
SCROLLING="NO". In MS InternetExplorer then a scrollbar
appears/disappears very nervous with the size of the slider
trying to follow the rightmost existing flash (totally
irritating).

Without the PostgreSQL image it is really very plain
(spartanic).

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

On 15-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 12-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
>> >>
>> > Just put in another version. This time, all dot's are red but
>> > they flash frequently when displayed in a Netscape.
>> >
>> > The advantage is that the image is static and the flashes are
>> > done with JavaScript. So the image could get highest quality
>> > and become bigger and finally placed as jpeg.
>> >
>> > For sake I haven't found out how to determine the absolute
>> > position of an image unter MS IE4 yet. So they are simply
>> > static there. Does anyone know how to do that?
>>
>> Now that's slick!
>
> I've installed that one with different coloured flashes now
> on the main site developers page. The map image is now
> 700x270 in jpeg and with a good quality (95% - in lower
> quality the red dots get too diffuse).
>
> I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.
>
> Does anyone have problems with it?

Looks and works great here.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================

> I didn't like it too, but in it was necessary. Without
> dropping it into it's own frame I couldn't set
> SCROLLING="NO". In MS InternetExplorer then a scrollbar
> appears/disappears very nervous with the size of the slider
> trying to follow the rightmost existing flash (totally
> irritating).
>
> Without the PostgreSQL image it is really very plain
> (spartanic).
>

Jan, I accidentally deleted the page when updating the page via cvs.
Can you put your copy on there again, or tell me how to get it?

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

> > I didn't like it too, but in it was necessary. Without
> > dropping it into it's own frame I couldn't set
> > SCROLLING="NO". In MS InternetExplorer then a scrollbar
> > appears/disappears very nervous with the size of the slider
> > trying to follow the rightmost existing flash (totally
> > irritating).
> >
> > Without the PostgreSQL image it is really very plain
> > (spartanic).
> >
>
> Jan, I accidentally deleted the page when updating the page via cvs.
> Can you put your copy on there again, or tell me how to get it?
>

Sorry for messing it up.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

On 15-Mar-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
>> I didn't like it too, but in it was necessary. Without
>> dropping it into it's own frame I couldn't set
>> SCROLLING="NO". In MS InternetExplorer then a scrollbar
>> appears/disappears very nervous with the size of the slider
>> trying to follow the rightmost existing flash (totally
>> irritating).
>>
>> Without the PostgreSQL image it is really very plain
>> (spartanic).
>>
>
> Jan, I accidentally deleted the page when updating the page via cvs.
> Can you put your copy on there again, or tell me how to get it?

Isn't it the same as in his $HOME/public_html dir? If not I still have
it up on my browser, I can save it off easy enuf.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================

>
> On 15-Mar-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >> I didn't like it too, but in it was necessary. Without
> >> dropping it into it's own frame I couldn't set
> >> SCROLLING="NO". In MS InternetExplorer then a scrollbar
> >> appears/disappears very nervous with the size of the slider
> >> trying to follow the rightmost existing flash (totally
> >> irritating).
> >>
> >> Without the PostgreSQL image it is really very plain
> >> (spartanic).
> >>
> >
> > Jan, I accidentally deleted the page when updating the page via cvs.
> > Can you put your copy on there again, or tell me how to get it?
>
> Isn't it the same as in his $HOME/public_html dir? If not I still have
> it up on my browser, I can save it off easy enuf.

Don't think so. It is framed for the other date in the page. Can you
send it over. I need devel-contrib.html

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

On 15-Mar-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
>>
>> On 15-Mar-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
>> >> I didn't like it too, but in it was necessary. Without
>> >> dropping it into it's own frame I couldn't set
>> >> SCROLLING="NO". In MS InternetExplorer then a scrollbar
>> >> appears/disappears very nervous with the size of the slider
>> >> trying to follow the rightmost existing flash (totally
>> >> irritating).
>> >>
>> >> Without the PostgreSQL image it is really very plain
>> >> (spartanic).
>> >>
>> >
>> > Jan, I accidentally deleted the page when updating the page via cvs.
>> > Can you put your copy on there again, or tell me how to get it?
>>
>> Isn't it the same as in his $HOME/public_html dir? If not I still have
>> it up on my browser, I can save it off easy enuf.
>
> Don't think so. It is framed for the other date in the page. Can you
> send it over. I need devel-contrib.html

Look in my $HOME dir to make sure it's what you're looking for. If not I
have the rest as well.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
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# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================

> >
> > Don't think so. It is framed for the other date in the page. Can you
> > send it over. I need devel-contrib.html
>
> Look in my $HOME dir to make sure it's what you're looking for. If not I
> have the rest as well.
>

No. It should have frames for the new globe. This is for the left
margin.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

> > Isn't it the same as in his $HOME/public_html dir? If not I still have
> > it up on my browser, I can save it off easy enuf.
>
> Don't think so. It is framed for the other date in the page. Can you
> send it over. I need devel-contrib.html

Vince got me the right file. Thanks. No need for you to get it Jan.

I will check it into cvs. We have a 'www' branch for the web site.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

> > > Isn't it the same as in his $HOME/public_html dir? If not I still have
> > > it up on my browser, I can save it off easy enuf.
> >
> > Don't think so. It is framed for the other date in the page. Can you
> > send it over. I need devel-contrib.html
>
> Vince got me the right file. Thanks. No need for you to get it Jan.
>
> I will check it into cvs. We have a 'www' branch for the web site.

I have checked in Jan's html, but not the subdirectories, which are
probably generated by Jan's program. Probably will not change very
often, so no need to cvs it. Do people agree?

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Jan Wieck wrote:
>
> I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.
>
> Does anyone have problems with it?

I just got:

JavaScript Error: http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html, line 31:
ie4 is not defined.

using the FreeBSD Netscape 4.05 binary.

Cheers,

Patrick

On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> >
> >
> > On 12-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
> > >>
> > > Just put in another version. This time, all dot's are red but
> > > they flash frequently when displayed in a Netscape.
> > >
> > > The advantage is that the image is static and the flashes are
> > > done with JavaScript. So the image could get highest quality
> > > and become bigger and finally placed as jpeg.
> > >
> > > For sake I haven't found out how to determine the absolute
> > > position of an image unter MS IE4 yet. So they are simply
> > > static there. Does anyone know how to do that?
> >
> > Now that's slick!
>
> I've installed that one with different coloured flashes now
> on the main site developers page. The map image is now
> 700x270 in jpeg and with a good quality (95% - in lower
> quality the red dots get too diffuse).
>
> I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.
>
> Does anyone have problems with it?

My only comment/problem...the underlying logo, IMHO, detracts from the
dots ... some of them you really have to pick at to see, with the logo
overshadowing it...

Marc G. Fournier
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

> >
> > I've installed that one with different coloured flashes now
> > on the main site developers page. The map image is now
> > 700x270 in jpeg and with a good quality (95% - in lower
> > quality the red dots get too diffuse).
> >
> > I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.
> >
> > Does anyone have problems with it?
>
> My only comment/problem...the underlying logo, IMHO, detracts from the
> dots ... some of them you really have to pick at to see, with the logo
> overshadowing it...

I have to agree on this.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

>
> > > > Isn't it the same as in his $HOME/public_html dir? If not I still have
> > > > it up on my browser, I can save it off easy enuf.
> > >
> > > Don't think so. It is framed for the other date in the page. Can you
> > > send it over. I need devel-contrib.html
> >
> > Vince got me the right file. Thanks. No need for you to get it Jan.
> >
> > I will check it into cvs. We have a 'www' branch for the web site.
>
> I have checked in Jan's html, but not the subdirectories, which are
> probably generated by Jan's program. Probably will not change very
> often, so no need to cvs it. Do people agree?

I've just committed my last changes to the www module and put
the files onto the site. Now the globe is on the page again
without a separate frame (much better).

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

>
> > >
> > > I've installed that one with different coloured flashes now
> > > on the main site developers page. The map image is now
> > > 700x270 in jpeg and with a good quality (95% - in lower
> > > quality the red dots get too diffuse).
> > >
> > > I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.
> > >
> > > Does anyone have problems with it?
> >
> > My only comment/problem...the underlying logo, IMHO, detracts from the
> > dots ... some of them you really have to pick at to see, with the logo
> > overshadowing it...
>
> I have to agree on this.

Man - first it is too flat, now the logo detracs, the flashes
cause problems and ppl vote agains. Next someone want's it
back rotating :-)

OK, ok - but slow motion now. A version that works for NS4
and IE4 is in place. Let's leave it there until we have
something better. I really wanted to get my fingers back on
raytracing for a long time and that time is now. I'll produce
some different map's the next days and place them all into
~wieck/index.html, then we can have a voting.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

> > I have to agree on this.
>
> Man - first it is too flat, now the logo detracs, the flashes
> cause problems and ppl vote agains. Next someone want's it
> back rotating :-)
>
> OK, ok - but slow motion now. A version that works for NS4
> and IE4 is in place. Let's leave it there until we have
> something better. I really wanted to get my fingers back on
> raytracing for a long time and that time is now. I'll produce
> some different map's the next days and place them all into
> ~wieck/index.html, then we can have a voting.

Now you know how I felt with the globe(too fast, hard to see), and
static map(bad dots).

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

>
> > > I have to agree on this.
> >
> > Man - first it is too flat, now the logo detracs, the flashes
> > cause problems and ppl vote agains. Next someone want's it
> > back rotating :-)
> >
> > OK, ok - but slow motion now. A version that works for NS4
> > and IE4 is in place. Let's leave it there until we have
> > something better. I really wanted to get my fingers back on
> > raytracing for a long time and that time is now. I'll produce
> > some different map's the next days and place them all into
> > ~wieck/index.html, then we can have a voting.
>
> Now you know how I felt with the globe(too fast, hard to see), and
> static map(bad dots).

The first raytraced example (just a quick shot :-) is in
place.

http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html

As you might expect, the locations of the nails are from the
same data I already have. I just bent them a little so every
location is visible. There is no map behind, but that's easy
and could have it's hot areas under the knobs of the nails.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

> > Now you know how I felt with the globe(too fast, hard to see), and
> > static map(bad dots).
>
> The first raytraced example (just a quick shot :-) is in
> place.
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
>
> As you might expect, the locations of the nails are from the
> same data I already have. I just bent them a little so every
> location is visible. There is no map behind, but that's easy
> and could have it's hot areas under the knobs of the nails.

Woh. I didn't know what ratracing was, but I know I like it. Certainly
jumps out at you. Is it in a paper tray?

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

> >
> > > > I have to agree on this.
> > >
> > > Man - first it is too flat, now the logo detracs, the flashes
> > > cause problems and ppl vote agains. Next someone want's it
> > > back rotating :-)
> > >
> > > OK, ok - but slow motion now. A version that works for NS4
> > > and IE4 is in place. Let's leave it there until we have
> > > something better. I really wanted to get my fingers back on
> > > raytracing for a long time and that time is now. I'll produce
> > > some different map's the next days and place them all into
> > > ~wieck/index.html, then we can have a voting.
> >
> > Now you know how I felt with the globe(too fast, hard to see), and
> > static map(bad dots).

When you put people's names on a page, amazing how interested they
become in the page.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

On 16-Mar-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
>> > Now you know how I felt with the globe(too fast, hard to see), and
>> > static map(bad dots).
>>
>> The first raytraced example (just a quick shot :-) is in
>> place.
>>
>> http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
>>
>> As you might expect, the locations of the nails are from the
>> same data I already have. I just bent them a little so every
>> location is visible. There is no map behind, but that's easy
>> and could have it's hot areas under the knobs of the nails.
>
> Woh. I didn't know what ratracing was, but I know I like it. Certainly
> jumps out at you. Is it in a paper tray?

Almost looks like a wooden box with water in it and the continents are
floating on the water. Jan, what are you using to create that?

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================

>
>
> On 16-Mar-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >> > Now you know how I felt with the globe(too fast, hard to see), and
> >> > static map(bad dots).
> >>
> >> The first raytraced example (just a quick shot :-) is in
> >> place.
> >>
> >> http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> >>
> >> As you might expect, the locations of the nails are from the
> >> same data I already have. I just bent them a little so every
> >> location is visible. There is no map behind, but that's easy
> >> and could have it's hot areas under the knobs of the nails.
> >
> > Woh. I didn't know what ratracing was, but I know I like it. Certainly
> > jumps out at you. Is it in a paper tray?
>
> Almost looks like a wooden box with water in it and the continents are
> floating on the water. Jan, what are you using to create that?
>
> Vince.

It's a wooden box with some water looking ground - right. The
continents sit on a glass surface above. Actually I'm playing
around with some bump mapping on the glass so it will be
better visible. And there where some errors in the images I
used for mapping, better soon.

I'm using rayshade and the utah raster toolkit for that.

It's not the final version. Finally there will be some
objects around the whole scene that produce reflections on
the glass so it looks like the box is laying on a table
inside of a room.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

>
> > http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> >
> Woh. I didn't know what ratracing was, but I know I like it. Certainly
> jumps out at you. Is it in a paper tray?

Do a reload. Just to show you what "HIGH QUALITY" rendering
means.

It's still the same scene - just the border of the box a
little higher, the glass better visible and sized to 600x300
(to better fit on the page). This time rendered with a
sampling rate of 5^2 per pixel (so per pixel 25 eye rays are
shot into the scene). Including all shadowing, transparency
and reflection a total of over 20 million rays have been
traced (for a picture with 180,000 pixels)!

Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz Celeron needs 20
minutes to finish that one.

Remember, it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
is from a scanned photo or the like.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

> Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz Celeron needs 20
> minutes to finish that one.
>
> Remember, it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> is from a scanned photo or the like.
>

You realize that now that we know you can do these images, a new
PostgreSQL logo request is coming! (Marc, ask him. Ask him!)

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

<raytracing details snipped>
>
> Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz Celeron needs 20
> minutes to finish that one.
>
> Remember, it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> is from a scanned photo or the like.
>

And to make it just that little bit more life-like -

How about either:
1 - bumpmap the continents to match the glass, then don't do a drop shadow
on the glass - so they look 'painted' on

or

2 - extrude the continents, so they have 'edges', and look like blocks of
foam pasted on the glass (with or w/o a finer grained bumpmap of their own)

You've got all the CPU in the world, right? ;-)

Ross
--
Ross J. Reedstrom, Ph.D., <reedstrm(at)rice(dot)edu>
NSBRI Research Scientist/Programmer
Computer and Information Technology Institute
Rice University, 6100 S. Main St., Houston, TX 77005

> It's a wooden box with some water looking ground - right. The
> continents sit on a glass surface above. Actually I'm playing
> around with some bump mapping on the glass so it will be
> better visible. And there where some errors in the images I
> used for mapping, better soon.

Jan, can I recommend you change the perspective of viewing the globe
from southern to northern. Because we are mostly in the northern
hemisphere, a perspective change would make that area larger, like
Europe.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Jan...

Any way of coming up with a suitable Logo to replace what we have
on the main screen? Something tasteful that jumps out at you? I like the
one we do have, but I don't think its very "strong"? How about it? :)

On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> >
> > > http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> > >
> > Woh. I didn't know what ratracing was, but I know I like it. Certainly
> > jumps out at you. Is it in a paper tray?
>
> Do a reload. Just to show you what "HIGH QUALITY" rendering
> means.
>
> It's still the same scene - just the border of the box a
> little higher, the glass better visible and sized to 600x300
> (to better fit on the page). This time rendered with a
> sampling rate of 5^2 per pixel (so per pixel 25 eye rays are
> shot into the scene). Including all shadowing, transparency
> and reflection a total of over 20 million rays have been
> traced (for a picture with 180,000 pixels)!
>
> Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz Celeron needs 20
> minutes to finish that one.
>
> Remember, it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> is from a scanned photo or the like.
>
>
> Jan
>
> --
>
> #======================================================================#
> # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
> # Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
> #======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #
>
>

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

>
> > It's a wooden box with some water looking ground - right. The
> > continents sit on a glass surface above. Actually I'm playing
> > around with some bump mapping on the glass so it will be
> > better visible. And there where some errors in the images I
> > used for mapping, better soon.
>
> Jan, can I recommend you change the perspective of viewing the globe
> from southern to northern. Because we are mostly in the northern
> hemisphere, a perspective change would make that area larger, like
> Europe.

I tried that, but the nails in europe are packed that close
that they hide each other then. Wasn't easy to find a point
of view where everyone is visible.

I'll first create a magnifying glass over europe as sample 2
:-)

The next I'll try is a flat map directly looked at from above
with all the names put with arrows onto a transparent layer
above. That would make overlib/JavaScript obsolete! But it
requires that the names are readable at last.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

> Jan...
>
> Any way of coming up with a suitable Logo to replace what we have
> on the main screen? Something tasteful that jumps out at you? I like the
> one we do have, but I don't think its very "strong"? How about it? :)

Nothing's impossible with a raytracer and some time! And I
expected this question while creating the map :-)

But it would be nice if some others would share some ideas
for it.

My first thought was a big truck on a road in the desert with
some cirrus clouds in the sky and "PostgreSQL" written on the
trailer. Maybe some snow capped mountains in the background.

Don't think that such a detailed scene is good for a small
Powered By logo, and the new logo must definitely fit for
that too.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

Bruce Momjian wrote:

>
> > Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz Celeron needs 20
> > minutes to finish that one.
> >
> > Remember, it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> > is from a scanned photo or the like.
> >
>
> You realize that now that we know you can do these images, a new
> PostgreSQL logo request is coming! (Marc, ask him. Ask him!)

A first one is on my index. I prefer the version with ORDBMS.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> >
> > > Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz Celeron needs 20
> > > minutes to finish that one.
> > >
> > > Remember, it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> > > is from a scanned photo or the like.
> > >
> >
> > You realize that now that we know you can do these images, a new
> > PostgreSQL logo request is coming! (Marc, ask him. Ask him!)
>
> A first one is on my index. I prefer the version with ORDBMS.

I agree! What are anyone's thoughts to having the web background the
same as the logo's background?

One suggestion on the logo, tho, can you dim the light that's shining
on it? It sorta takes away from the rest of it. (Yes I know it's
a virtual light)

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================

On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> >
> > > Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz Celeron needs 20
> > > minutes to finish that one.
> > >
> > > Remember, it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> > > is from a scanned photo or the like.
> > >
> >
> > You realize that now that we know you can do these images, a new
> > PostgreSQL logo request is coming! (Marc, ask him. Ask him!)
>
> A first one is on my index. I prefer the version with ORDBMS.

Shocking to most, I like...nice, simple, not too overwhelming...but (ya
ya, always a but)...in the Powered By one, the left side is really faint,
almost to the point of unable to read the letters...?

As for preference...ya, Ilike the ORDBS one too...

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
>
> > Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz Celeron needs 20
> > > > minutes to finish that one.
> > > >
> > > > Remember, it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> > > > is from a scanned photo or the like.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You realize that now that we know you can do these images, a new
> > > PostgreSQL logo request is coming! (Marc, ask him. Ask him!)
> >
> > A first one is on my index. I prefer the version with ORDBMS.
>
> I agree! What are anyone's thoughts to having the web background the
> same as the logo's background?

Ummm...it depends on how it looks. ONe thing that I *really* hate
about backgrounds is they generally make reading teh page
difficult...there are *alot* of bad sites out there that are a result of
it :(

If it can be done right, it would be nice if it could all look
like one solid piece, yes...

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

> > I agree! What are anyone's thoughts to having the web background the
> > same as the logo's background?
>
> Ummm...it depends on how it looks. ONe thing that I *really* hate
> about backgrounds is they generally make reading teh page
> difficult...there are *alot* of bad sites out there that are a result of
> it :(
>
> If it can be done right, it would be nice if it could all look
> like one solid piece, yes...

That's impossible. The background is a sky texture which
isn't repeating. It is computed by a fractional brownian
motion function.

For a web page background, you need a repeating image that
can be tiled.

I like the sky in the background, because it carries a
message. But I wouldn't mind too much removing it and making
the background transparent.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

> Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> >
> > > Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz Celeron needs 20
> > > minutes to finish that one.
> > >
> > > Remember, it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> > > is from a scanned photo or the like.
> > >
> >
> > You realize that now that we know you can do these images, a new
> > PostgreSQL logo request is coming! (Marc, ask him. Ask him!)

I think I like the 3rd developers globe. Can we try it without
stickpins? I think it is looking confusing. Looks like there is enough
room in England on that image to show everyone as red dome, rather than
a stickpin.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

> same as the logo's background?
>
> One suggestion on the logo, tho, can you dim the light that's shining
> on it? It sorta takes away from the rest of it. (Yes I know it's
> a virtual light)
>

Here is an idea. I have thought about making the name stand out as a
pattern within a grid/table.

If you remember the end of the movie 2001, where HAL has those red bars
coming out as he is disconnected. We could have PostgreSQL spelled out
as red bard sticking out in a grid:

---
- -
---
-
_

like this. Of course, the grid would have to have lots of bars to look
good. I thought this would go well with an SQL/table motif.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

> That's impossible. The background is a sky texture which
> isn't repeating. It is computed by a fractional brownian
> motion function.
>
> For a web page background, you need a repeating image that
> can be tiled.
>
> I like the sky in the background, because it carries a
> message. But I wouldn't mind too much removing it and making
> the background transparent.

Maybe more of a sunset/sunrise sky, so it has some color, and looks less
like an MS-Windows background. The setting sun could be in front of the
name, illuminating it with dramatic color.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

>
> > same as the logo's background?
> >
> > One suggestion on the logo, tho, can you dim the light that's shining
> > on it? It sorta takes away from the rest of it. (Yes I know it's
> > a virtual light)
> >
>
> Here is an idea. I have thought about making the name stand out as a
> pattern within a grid/table.
>
> If you remember the end of the movie 2001, where HAL has those red bars
> coming out as he is disconnected. We could have PostgreSQL spelled out
> as red bard sticking out in a grid:

Hmmm - you mean his crystal storage which Dave was pushing
and they smoothly came out - no?

Nice idea.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

> >
> > > same as the logo's background?
> > >
> > > One suggestion on the logo, tho, can you dim the light that's shining
> > > on it? It sorta takes away from the rest of it. (Yes I know it's
> > > a virtual light)
> > >
> >
> > Here is an idea. I have thought about making the name stand out as a
> > pattern within a grid/table.
> >
> > If you remember the end of the movie 2001, where HAL has those red bars
> > coming out as he is disconnected. We could have PostgreSQL spelled out
> > as red bard sticking out in a grid:
>
> Hmmm - you mean his crystal storage which Dave was pushing
> and they smoothly came out - no?
>
> Nice idea.

Yes, that was my idea of somehow merging PostgreSQL into some table
format. Could look really cool, especially if viewed from an angle, or
really poor.

With someone who can do almost anything(you!), it becomes a harder
question of what we want.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> > Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz Celeron needs 20
> > > > minutes to finish that one.
> > > >
> > > > Remember, it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> > > > is from a scanned photo or the like.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You realize that now that we know you can do these images, a new
> > > PostgreSQL logo request is coming! (Marc, ask him. Ask him!)
>
> I think I like the 3rd developers globe. Can we try it without
> stickpins? I think it is looking confusing. Looks like there is enough
> room in England on that image to show everyone as red dome, rather than
> a stickpin.

I agree about the 3rd globe, but disagree about the stick pins...I
like them, personally...reminds me about how one does military tactical
maps *grin*

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

>
> On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> > > Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz Celeron needs 20
> > > > > minutes to finish that one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Remember, it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> > > > > is from a scanned photo or the like.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You realize that now that we know you can do these images, a new
> > > > PostgreSQL logo request is coming! (Marc, ask him. Ask him!)
> >
> > I think I like the 3rd developers globe. Can we try it without
> > stickpins? I think it is looking confusing. Looks like there is enough
> > room in England on that image to show everyone as red dome, rather than
> > a stickpin.
>
> I agree about the 3rd globe, but disagree about the stick pins...I
> like them, personally...reminds me about how one does military tactical
> maps *grin*

.PS
And there isn't enough room in England. Andrew and Peter are that close to
each other that they would have to share one. It's not fair if anyone else
has a stick for it's own.

But I'll try another type of stick.
.PE

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

> And there isn't enough room in England. Andrew and Peter are that close to
> each other that they would have to share one. It's not fair if anyone else
> has a stick for it's own.
>
> But I'll try another type of stick.

Hmmm - I'm absolutely unhappy with example #4. The conversion
to JPG destroyed that one nearly. The rayshade output (517K)
is absolutely nice. But it seems the drastic color changes
from one pixel to the next aren't what JPG likes.

I've noticed it earlier that all the images get a little
dimmed when converted to JPG. They look brighter in the RLE
format or when converted to PPM.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

On 19-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
>> And there isn't enough room in England. Andrew and Peter are that close to
>> each other that they would have to share one. It's not fair if anyone else
>> has a stick for it's own.
>>
>> But I'll try another type of stick.
>
> Hmmm - I'm absolutely unhappy with example #4. The conversion
> to JPG destroyed that one nearly. The rayshade output (517K)
> is absolutely nice. But it seems the drastic color changes
> from one pixel to the next aren't what JPG likes.
>
> I've noticed it earlier that all the images get a little
> dimmed when converted to JPG. They look brighter in the RLE
> format or when converted to PPM.

I agree. Ick. Or were those pillars where stickpins used to be
intentional? Either way, ick.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================

> My first thought was a big truck on a road in the desert with
> some cirrus clouds in the sky and "PostgreSQL" written on the
> trailer. Maybe some snow capped mountains in the background.

Let me give you an idea.

Instead of a truck, a freight train.

You could have the engine with PostreSQL on the side, and the boxcars
could have PostgreSQL keywords on it, like SELECT, INSERT, UPDATE, RULE,
etc. The cars could trail off into the distance.

Or you could picture a horseshoe curve, like we have in Pennsylvania.
The curve does a 180 degree turn, like an upside-down U, so you see more
of the train in the picture, with the engine on the left, and caboose on
the right. (I can show you a picture if that helps.) You could put the
name PostgreSQL on the mountain in the background of the curve too,
again with keywords on the boxcars.

You could even add a train to the bottom of the existing logo you have
made, with perhaps objects in the hopper cars. Would make a nice logo,
and give it some movement. Smoke trailing out of the engine, etc.

Of course, being from Pennsylvania, USA, I have to recommend a train.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Bruce Momjian wrote:

>
> > My first thought was a big truck on a road in the desert with
> > some cirrus clouds in the sky and "PostgreSQL" written on the
> > trailer. Maybe some snow capped mountains in the background.
>
> Let me give you an idea.
>
> Instead of a truck, a freight train.
>
> You could have the engine with PostreSQL on the side, and the boxcars
> could have PostgreSQL keywords on it, like SELECT, INSERT, UPDATE, RULE,
> etc. The cars could trail off into the distance.
>
> Or you could picture a horseshoe curve, like we have in Pennsylvania.
> The curve does a 180 degree turn, like an upside-down U, so you see more
> of the train in the picture, with the engine on the left, and caboose on
> the right. (I can show you a picture if that helps.) You could put the
> name PostgreSQL on the mountain in the background of the curve too,
> again with keywords on the boxcars.
>
> You could even add a train to the bottom of the existing logo you have
> made, with perhaps objects in the hopper cars. Would make a nice logo,
> and give it some movement. Smoke trailing out of the engine, etc.
>
> Of course, being from Pennsylvania, USA, I have to recommend a train.

Another nice idea - better than the truck.

But (I known that many of my sentences begin with but) - but
I thought about all that during the wieckend without creating
pictures. And I came to the conclusion that we make a major
mistake actually.

We are talking about some nice image for the WEB banner, not
about a LOGO.

PostgreSQL doesn't have a logo. There is a wide range of
kinds of logos out in the world. Some are simple graphics,
some are self associative ways to instanciate something. Most
car manufacturers use some simple graphic that could easily
be made out of chrome (must be part of the concept) or with
few colors:

a lion (Peugeot)
two upward pointing angles (Citroen)
four circles (Audi)
a circle in bavarian colors (BMW)
a rhomb (Renault)
a stylistic H (Honda)
specially forms of stars (Chrysler, Mercedes)

Most of them have interesting shading and reflectional
effects when made out of chrome.

One well known self associative thing is this: Write any
combination of three capital letters in horizontal blue
stripes. What a brand!

Free software products also have logos already. Remember this
coloured feather, that little cute penguin or the little
devil.

Except for the last two (Linux and BSD), all these logos can
be easily drawn in any pixel editor and don't need a
raytracer. If we come up with such a thing, it might be easy
to create a raytraced WEB banner image where this logo stands
out. But thinking of the image first is bottom up.

Another advantage having such a logo would be, that the
banner image could change from time to time without loosing
anything. Only that the logo must be subject of all the
images.

I like the coloured feather of Apache, because it is simple
and tells something about it. The message I see is "free and
light".

Sorry for taking us back to the start. But we need to make
the first step first.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >
> > I think I like the 3rd developers globe. Can we try it without
> > stickpins? I think it is looking confusing. Looks like there is enough
> > room in England on that image to show everyone as red dome, rather than
> > a stickpin.
>
> I agree about the 3rd globe, but disagree about the stick pins...I
> like them, personally...reminds me about how one does military tactical
> maps *grin*

I like them too :-). Maybe Bruce is right that they should
look more like silver.

I've changed them and placed a magnifying glass over europe
as Example 5. Even if it hides some parts of the map, I
think it's useful (not everyone has a real magnifying glass
handy so a virtual one isn't a bad thing).

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > >
> > > I think I like the 3rd developers globe. Can we try it without
> > > stickpins? I think it is looking confusing. Looks like there is enough
> > > room in England on that image to show everyone as red dome, rather than
> > > a stickpin.
> >
> > I agree about the 3rd globe, but disagree about the stick pins...I
> > like them, personally...reminds me about how one does military tactical
> > maps *grin*
>
> I like them too :-). Maybe Bruce is right that they should
> look more like silver.

Yes, better in silver.

>
> I've changed them and placed a magnifying glass over europe
> as Example 5. Even if it hides some parts of the map, I
> think it's useful (not everyone has a real magnifying glass
> handy so a virtual one isn't a bad thing).

Why not set the image perspecive over Europe, that way all dots are
visible, and no need for a magnifying glass. The magnifying glass
removes the continuity of the image for me.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> PostgreSQL doesn't have a logo. There is a wide range of
> kinds of logos out in the world. Some are simple graphics,
> some are self associative ways to instanciate something. Most
> car manufacturers use some simple graphic that could easily
> be made out of chrome (must be part of the concept) or with
> few colors:
>
> a lion (Peugeot)
> two upward pointing angles (Citroen)
> four circles (Audi)
> a circle in bavarian colors (BMW)
> a rhomb (Renault)
> a stylistic H (Honda)
> specially forms of stars (Chrysler, Mercedes)

Agreed...Elephant still comes to mind...ability to carry heavy loads and
go the distance... :)

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> > I've changed them and placed a magnifying glass over europe
> > as Example 5. Even if it hides some parts of the map, I
> > think it's useful (not everyone has a real magnifying glass
> > handy so a virtual one isn't a bad thing).
>
> Why not set the image perspecive over Europe, that way all dots are
> visible, and no need for a magnifying glass. The magnifying glass
> removes the continuity of the image for me.

Agreed on this point...some sort of floating magnifying glass
would be cool, that follows your mouse pointer, but, Ithink, unrealistic
:(

Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

On 22-Mar-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
>
>> PostgreSQL doesn't have a logo. There is a wide range of
>> kinds of logos out in the world. Some are simple graphics,
>> some are self associative ways to instanciate something. Most
>> car manufacturers use some simple graphic that could easily
>> be made out of chrome (must be part of the concept) or with
>> few colors:
>>
>> a lion (Peugeot)
>> two upward pointing angles (Citroen)
>> four circles (Audi)
>> a circle in bavarian colors (BMW)
>> a rhomb (Renault)
>> a stylistic H (Honda)
>> specially forms of stars (Chrysler, Mercedes)
>
> Agreed...Elephant still comes to mind...ability to carry heavy loads and
> go the distance... :)

never forgets...

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
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==========================================================================

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

>
> On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
>
> > PostgreSQL doesn't have a logo. There is a wide range of
> > kinds of logos out in the world. Some are simple graphics,
> > some are self associative ways to instanciate something. Most
> > car manufacturers use some simple graphic that could easily
> > be made out of chrome (must be part of the concept) or with
> > few colors:
> >
> > a lion (Peugeot)
> > two upward pointing angles (Citroen)
> > four circles (Audi)
> > a circle in bavarian colors (BMW)
> > a rhomb (Renault)
> > a stylistic H (Honda)
> > specially forms of stars (Chrysler, Mercedes)
>
> Agreed...Elephant still comes to mind...ability to carry heavy loads and
> go the distance... :)

But is itself a bit fat - do we want that association? :-)

The first I've created has a diamond. It's on my index.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

>
> On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> > > I've changed them and placed a magnifying glass over europe
> > > as Example 5. Even if it hides some parts of the map, I
> > > think it's useful (not everyone has a real magnifying glass
> > > handy so a virtual one isn't a bad thing).
> >
> > Why not set the image perspecive over Europe, that way all dots are
> > visible, and no need for a magnifying glass. The magnifying glass
> > removes the continuity of the image for me.
>
> Agreed on this point...some sort of floating magnifying glass
> would be cool, that follows your mouse pointer, but, Ithink, unrealistic
> :(

Was only a test. Will remove it again.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
> >
> > On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> >
> > > PostgreSQL doesn't have a logo. There is a wide range of
> > > kinds of logos out in the world. Some are simple graphics,
> > > some are self associative ways to instanciate something. Most
> > > car manufacturers use some simple graphic that could easily
> > > be made out of chrome (must be part of the concept) or with
> > > few colors:
> > >
> > > a lion (Peugeot)
> > > two upward pointing angles (Citroen)
> > > four circles (Audi)
> > > a circle in bavarian colors (BMW)
> > > a rhomb (Renault)
> > > a stylistic H (Honda)
> > > specially forms of stars (Chrysler, Mercedes)
> >
> > Agreed...Elephant still comes to mind...ability to carry heavy loads and
> > go the distance... :)
>
> But is itself a bit fat - do we want that association? :-)

Not fat...heavy weight :)

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

The Hermit Hacker wrote:
>
> On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
>
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> > >
> > > > PostgreSQL doesn't have a logo. There is a wide range of
> > > > kinds of logos out in the world. Some are simple graphics,
> > > > some are self associative ways to instanciate something. Most
> > > > car manufacturers use some simple graphic that could easily
> > > > be made out of chrome (must be part of the concept) or with
> > > > few colors:
> > > >
> > > > a lion (Peugeot)
> > > > two upward pointing angles (Citroen)
> > > > four circles (Audi)
> > > > a circle in bavarian colors (BMW)
> > > > a rhomb (Renault)
> > > > a stylistic H (Honda)
> > > > specially forms of stars (Chrysler, Mercedes)
> > >
> > > Agreed...Elephant still comes to mind...ability to carry heavy loads and
> > > go the distance... :)

Aint elephant associated mostly with some political party in US ?

> > But is itself a bit fat - do we want that association? :-)

I once did some crocodiles,

http://sid.trust.ee/Info/PostgreSQL.figs/logo/page2.html

the reasoning is at the beginning of:

http://sid.trust.ee/Info/PostgreSQL.figs/logo/page.html

This discussion has escaped me until now as this went
under the heading Developers Globe ;)

-------------------
Hannu

jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) writes:

> But is itself a bit fat - do we want that association? :-)
>
> The first I've created has a diamond. It's on my index.

I think this is the absolute best set of logo offerings yet.

I like #2 best.

#1 reminds me of the dopey I<heart>NY bumper stickers that were all
the rage some years back.

In #3, centering "Powered by" weakens the effect somehow.

But all three look very good.

Would it look less cluttered without the ORDBMS?

I've been speaking to one of the artists at work about logos. His
description of a good logo includes the following:

1. Should be simple enough that it's recognizable when scaled down to
small icon size.

2. Should be recognizable from the shape of its silhouette. We should
know what it stands for even without standard colors and with
extreme contrast.

3. The shape should somehow suggest the entity that is represented.

4. Does not necessarily include the company name. This can be attached
beside the logo.

His examples of good logos: AT&T "death star", the Apple logo. I'd add
the FreeBSD logo as a third.

Hal Snyder wrote:

>
> jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) writes:
>
> > The first I've created has a diamond. It's on my index.
>
> I think this is the absolute best set of logo offerings yet.

Thanks

>
> I like #2 best.

And I #1 - maybe because I created that first.

> In #3, centering "Powered by" weakens the effect somehow.

If we choose the diamond as our logo, I'll create a bunch of
permutations where "Powered by" and the diamond are left,
center/as-o, right and we should vote on.

> Would it look less cluttered without the ORDBMS?

Don't know - would be part of the permutations. Would make
it consume less space though :-).

>
> I've been speaking to one of the artists at work about logos. His
> description of a good logo includes the following:
>
> 1. Should be simple enough that it's recognizable when scaled down to
> small icon size.
>
> 2. Should be recognizable from the shape of its silhouette. We should
> know what it stands for even without standard colors and with
> extreme contrast.
>
> 3. The shape should somehow suggest the entity that is represented.
>
> 4. Does not necessarily include the company name. This can be attached
> beside the logo.
>
> His examples of good logos: AT&T "death star", the Apple logo. I'd add
> the FreeBSD logo as a third.

Rules 1 and 2 are matched. Rule 3 - a diamond is hard, sharp,
clear bright and more worthy than gold - matched.

Rule number 4 I would not want to match. The spelling
PostgreSQL (not Postgres-SQL or all the other spellings
sometimes used) is somewhat special and thus should be part
of the logo.

My absolute favorites of logos are the ones where the
font/colors+outline associate with the name. Write anything
in that special curly way white on a red background and you
have Coke. Any 3 capitals written in blue stripes reminds on
IBM. And my wife bought NIVEA in Tunis - it was just that
blue round cover with some arabic letters in white :-) - you
can read that even if you can't identify one single letter.

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> My absolute favorites of logos are the ones where the
> font/colors+outline associate with the name. Write anything
> in that special curly way white on a red background and you
> have Coke. Any 3 capitals written in blue stripes reminds on
> IBM. And my wife bought NIVEA in Tunis - it was just that
> blue round cover with some arabic letters in white :-) - you
> can read that even if you can't identify one single letter.

Speaking of color, how about a different color for "Postgre"? That
one's a bit boring.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
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# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
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==========================================================================

>
> On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
>
> > My absolute favorites of logos are the ones where the
> > font/colors+outline associate with the name. Write anything
> > in that special curly way white on a red background and you
> > have Coke. Any 3 capitals written in blue stripes reminds on
> > IBM. And my wife bought NIVEA in Tunis - it was just that
> > blue round cover with some arabic letters in white :-) - you
> > can read that even if you can't identify one single letter.
>
> Speaking of color, how about a different color for "Postgre"? That
> one's a bit boring.

Tell RGB...

Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#======================================== jwieck(at)debis(dot)com (Jan Wieck) #

On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> >
> > On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> >
> > > My absolute favorites of logos are the ones where the
> > > font/colors+outline associate with the name. Write anything
> > > in that special curly way white on a red background and you
> > > have Coke. Any 3 capitals written in blue stripes reminds on
> > > IBM. And my wife bought NIVEA in Tunis - it was just that
> > > blue round cover with some arabic letters in white :-) - you
> > > can read that even if you can't identify one single letter.
> >
> > Speaking of color, how about a different color for "Postgre"? That
> > one's a bit boring.
>
> Tell RGB...

Dunno. That's why I didn't suggest one. What works with blue and gray?
If I can find it I'll dig out the color wheel and take a look.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================