Re: Impending freeze

Hi,

any idea what we do with ecpg for the upcoming freeze? Do we use the
beta version of bison? If so, do we merge the branch back into main?

I just synced the parsers and found one more problem. The embedded SQL
commands EXECUTE and PREPARE do collide with the backend commands. No
idea so far how to fix this.

Michael
--
Michael Meskes
Michael(at)Fam-Meskes(dot)De
Go SF 49ers! Go Rhein Fire!
Use Debian GNU/Linux! Use PostgreSQL!

When is the beta freeze?

I've just started looking at a ToDo list item and hope it won't take too
long. However, I've got other things to do and this is the first I've looked in
this area. An idea about time left to complete it would be good so I decide if
I'm wasting my time and effort at the moment.

--
Nigel J. Andrews
Director

---
Logictree Systems Limited
Computer Consultants

On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Nigel J. Andrews wrote:

>
>
> When is the beta freeze?

Today.

Gavin

On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Gavin Sherry wrote:

> On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Nigel J. Andrews wrote:
>
> > When is the beta freeze?
>
> Today.
>

Oops, my fault for being imprecise.

I was wondering what time of day with timezone. Someone suggested end of today
but that means different times to different people.

--
Nigel Andrews

Nigel J. Andrews wrote:
> Oops, my fault for being imprecise.
>
> I was wondering what time of day with timezone. Someone suggested end of today
> but that means different times to different people.

Bruce's message said end of day, EDT.

Joe

> Oops, my fault for being imprecise.
>
> I was wondering what time of day with timezone. Someone suggested end of today
> but that means different times to different people.

This is what Marc said yesterday:

Yup, I believe that it is the case that both the US and Canada
"celebrate"
labour day on Monday, correct? If so, then let's put the freeze on
effective 8:30amADT on Tuesday morning, at which point I'll put a tag in
place, and will package Beta1 up for the initial round of testing ...

I don't know if that suggestion will go through or not, but I can't see
why not.

On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Nigel J. Andrews wrote:

>
> On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Gavin Sherry wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Nigel J. Andrews wrote:
> >
> > > When is the beta freeze?
> >
> > Today.
> >
>
> Oops, my fault for being imprecise.
>
> I was wondering what time of day with timezone. Someone suggested end of today
> but that means different times to different people.

8:30am ADT on Tuesday morning is when I'm going to freeze everything ...
so you effectively have all day on Monday to get it in ...

On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote:

> On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Nigel J. Andrews wrote:
>
> >
> > On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Gavin Sherry wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Nigel J. Andrews wrote:
> > >
> > > > When is the beta freeze?
> > >
> > > Today.
> > >
> >
> > Oops, my fault for being imprecise.
> >
> > I was wondering what time of day with timezone. Someone suggested end of today
> > but that means different times to different people.
>
> 8:30am ADT on Tuesday morning is when I'm going to freeze everything ...
> so you effectively have all day on Monday to get it in ...

Thanks all that replied.

I haven't read the messages between Friday and when I posted yet so I didn't
know about the Tuesday morning thing. I was not going to bother having realised
the silliness of trying to rush a patch into place but this sounds more
realistic.

--
Nigel J. Andrews

I think we need the bison beta on postgresql.org, and we shipped using
that.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Michael Meskes wrote:
> Hi,
>
> any idea what we do with ecpg for the upcoming freeze? Do we use the
> beta version of bison? If so, do we merge the branch back into main?
>
> I just synced the parsers and found one more problem. The embedded SQL
> commands EXECUTE and PREPARE do collide with the backend commands. No
> idea so far how to fix this.
>
> Michael
> --
> Michael Meskes
> Michael(at)Fam-Meskes(dot)De
> Go SF 49ers! Go Rhein Fire!
> Use Debian GNU/Linux! Use PostgreSQL!
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo(at)postgresql(dot)org
>

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

We are definitely more organized for this beta because we are picking
the hour for beta start. ;-)

The issue is that we can't just close beta and roll out a beta1 tarball.
There will be patch questions, doc questions, and general build
questions that could take days to resolve before we are 100% ready for
beta1.

Now, if you just want to roll together what we have and send out that,
that is fine, but there are going to be significant cleanups in beta2.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Nigel J. Andrews wrote:
>
> >
> > On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Gavin Sherry wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Nigel J. Andrews wrote:
> > >
> > > > When is the beta freeze?
> > >
> > > Today.
> > >
> >
> > Oops, my fault for being imprecise.
> >
> > I was wondering what time of day with timezone. Someone suggested end of today
> > but that means different times to different people.
>
> 8:30am ADT on Tuesday morning is when I'm going to freeze everything ...
> so you effectively have all day on Monday to get it in ...
>
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command
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>

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote:

>
> We are definitely more organized for this beta because we are picking
> the hour for beta start. ;-)
>
> The issue is that we can't just close beta and roll out a beta1 tarball.
> There will be patch questions, doc questions, and general build
> questions that could take days to resolve before we are 100% ready for
> beta1.
>
> Now, if you just want to roll together what we have and send out that,
> that is fine, but there are going to be significant cleanups in beta2.

This is what I'm figuring ... if we roll and send out a beta1 right off,
more ppl will look at it and report bugs then if we just say 'hey, its
frozen, check it out' ... as I've said before, to me, beta is "we're
getting ready to release, let us know what is wrong so that we can fix it"
... its at the RC level that we're saying we believe we have all the
issues worked out ...

>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Nigel J. Andrews wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Gavin Sherry wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Nigel J. Andrews wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > When is the beta freeze?
> > > >
> > > > Today.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Oops, my fault for being imprecise.
> > >
> > > I was wondering what time of day with timezone. Someone suggested end of today
> > > but that means different times to different people.
> >
> > 8:30am ADT on Tuesday morning is when I'm going to freeze everything ...
> > so you effectively have all day on Monday to get it in ...
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command
> > (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo(at)postgresql(dot)org)
> >
>
> --
> Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
> pgman(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 359-1001
> + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
> + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
>

Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> >
> > We are definitely more organized for this beta because we are picking
> > the hour for beta start. ;-)
> >
> > The issue is that we can't just close beta and roll out a beta1 tarball.
> > There will be patch questions, doc questions, and general build
> > questions that could take days to resolve before we are 100% ready for
> > beta1.
> >
> > Now, if you just want to roll together what we have and send out that,
> > that is fine, but there are going to be significant cleanups in beta2.
>
> This is what I'm figuring ... if we roll and send out a beta1 right off,
> more ppl will look at it and report bugs then if we just say 'hey, its
> frozen, check it out' ... as I've said before, to me, beta is "we're
> getting ready to release, let us know what is wrong so that we can fix it"
> ... its at the RC level that we're saying we believe we have all the
> issues worked out ...

Yes, I am just concerned we may actually adjust functionality after
beta1 if we haven't tied everything down, and that may be a problem.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> Yes, I am just concerned we may actually adjust functionality after
> beta1 if we haven't tied everything down, and that may be a problem.

Why? Nobody should be using a beta for production anyway ... until we go
to RC1, functionality can change if its required to fix a bug ... always
has been that way ...

Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> > Yes, I am just concerned we may actually adjust functionality after
> > beta1 if we haven't tied everything down, and that may be a problem.
>
> Why? Nobody should be using a beta for production anyway ... until we go
> to RC1, functionality can change if its required to fix a bug ... always
> has been that way ...

Oh, OK. We will package it as best was can for Tuesday.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy(at)hub(dot)org> writes:
>> Now, if you just want to roll together what we have and send out that,
>> that is fine, but there are going to be significant cleanups in beta2.

> This is what I'm figuring ... if we roll and send out a beta1 right off,
> more ppl will look at it and report bugs then if we just say 'hey, its
> frozen, check it out' ... as I've said before, to me, beta is "we're
> getting ready to release, let us know what is wrong so that we can fix it"
> ... its at the RC level that we're saying we believe we have all the
> issues worked out ...

My two cents: once we ship beta1 we should try really really hard to
avoid forcing an initdb cycle before final release. We can make all
the portability fixes and code fixes we like, but we have to avoid
disk-file-contents changes and system catalog changes. If we force
an initdb then we're penalizing beta testers who might have been foolish
enough to load large databases into the beta version --- and yeah, there
were no guarantees, but will they do it again next beta cycle?

So my take is that anything that needs initdb doesn't get in after
beta1, unless it's a "must fix" bug. What have we got in the queue
that would require system catalog changes?

regards, tom lane

On Mon, 02 Sep 2002 01:20:51 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
>
> My two cents: once we ship beta1 we should try really really hard to
> avoid forcing an initdb cycle before final release. We can make all the
> portability fixes and code fixes we like, but we have to avoid
> disk-file-contents changes and system catalog changes. If we force an
> initdb then we're penalizing beta testers who might have been foolish
> enough to load large databases into the beta version --- and yeah, there
> were no guarantees, but will they do it again next beta cycle?

Well, speaking as a user and tester, I don't mind an initdb between beta
releases -- and I'm planning on loading ~8GB of data. I've been playing
with the CVS tip all week using a ~2GB dataset, and having to initdb
every other day or so. No biggie, and I'm getting to test pg_dump, as a
bonus! ;-)

I suppose some delicate souls would be put off by an initdb, or get sore
at experiencing the reason Beta != Production, but I think the serious
users will prefer that you developers have a free hand to do whatever is
necessary to make 7.3 as good as it can be.

My US$0.02,

Gordon.
--
"Far and away the best prize that life has to offer
is the chance to work hard at work worth doing."
-- Theodore Roosevelt

Yes, I think the key issue is whether we have a better chance of
preventing radical changes during beta if we go a few days during code
freeze to make sure everything is bolted down.

Marc doesn't want to do that, so we won't.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gordon Runkle wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Sep 2002 01:20:51 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> >
> > My two cents: once we ship beta1 we should try really really hard to
> > avoid forcing an initdb cycle before final release. We can make all the
> > portability fixes and code fixes we like, but we have to avoid
> > disk-file-contents changes and system catalog changes. If we force an
> > initdb then we're penalizing beta testers who might have been foolish
> > enough to load large databases into the beta version --- and yeah, there
> > were no guarantees, but will they do it again next beta cycle?
>
> Well, speaking as a user and tester, I don't mind an initdb between beta
> releases -- and I'm planning on loading ~8GB of data. I've been playing
> with the CVS tip all week using a ~2GB dataset, and having to initdb
> every other day or so. No biggie, and I'm getting to test pg_dump, as a
> bonus! ;-)
>
> I suppose some delicate souls would be put off by an initdb, or get sore
> at experiencing the reason Beta != Production, but I think the serious
> users will prefer that you developers have a free hand to do whatever is
> necessary to make 7.3 as good as it can be.
>
> My US$0.02,
>
> Gordon.
> --
> "Far and away the best prize that life has to offer
> is the chance to work hard at work worth doing."
> -- Theodore Roosevelt
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo(at)postgresql(dot)org
>

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Tom Lane wrote:

> So my take is that anything that needs initdb doesn't get in after
> beta1, unless it's a "must fix" bug. What have we got in the queue
> that would require system catalog changes?

Agreed, but, have we ever done such when it *wasn't* required? I know in
the past its always been with hestitation that such has been done, or at
least that is how I've felt it come across ...