Lists: | pgsql-hackers |
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From: | Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> |
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To: | PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers(at)postgreSQL(dot)org> |
Subject: | Indication of db-shared tables |
Date: | 2011-06-22 03:05:17 |
Message-ID: | 201106220305.p5M35HK17636@momjian.us |
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Do we do enough to show which tables are db shared, e.g. pg_database? I
don't see any indication from psql \dS. Are our docs clear enough?
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com
+ It's impossible for everything to be true. +
From: | "Greg Sabino Mullane" <greg(at)turnstep(dot)com> |
---|---|
To: | pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org |
Subject: | Re: Indication of db-shared tables |
Date: | 2011-06-22 03:24:34 |
Message-ID: | a5abf2be8583405342acc3d4b16b427f@biglumber.com |
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Hash: RIPEMD160
> Do we do enough to show which tables are db shared, e.g. pg_database? I
> don't see any indication from psql \dS. Are our docs clear enough?
I don't think \dS should be indicating such a thing. I think it's documented
well enough: if you are doing something that it matters enough which
tables are shared, you really oughtta know about them anyway.
- --
Greg Sabino Mullane greg(at)turnstep(dot)com
End Point Corporation http://www.endpoint.com/
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 201106212323
http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8
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From: | Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com> |
---|---|
To: | Greg Sabino Mullane <greg(at)turnstep(dot)com> |
Cc: | pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org> |
Subject: | Re: Indication of db-shared tables |
Date: | 2011-06-22 06:12:22 |
Message-ID: | 1308723116-sup-3180@alvh.no-ip.org |
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Excerpts from Greg Sabino Mullane's message of mié jun 22 03:24:34 UTC 2011:
>
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> > Do we do enough to show which tables are db shared, e.g. pg_database? I
> > don't see any indication from psql \dS. Are our docs clear enough?
>
> I don't think \dS should be indicating such a thing. I think it's documented
> well enough: if you are doing something that it matters enough which
> tables are shared, you really oughtta know about them anyway.
Yeah. The user can't create new ones either, so why would it matter?
--
Álvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com>
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
From: | Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> |
---|---|
To: | Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com> |
Cc: | Greg Sabino Mullane <greg(at)turnstep(dot)com>, pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org> |
Subject: | Re: Indication of db-shared tables |
Date: | 2011-06-22 13:10:02 |
Message-ID: | 201106221310.p5MDA2j12820@momjian.us |
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Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Excerpts from Greg Sabino Mullane's message of mi jun 22 03:24:34 UTC 2011:
> >
> > Hash: RIPEMD160
> >
> > > Do we do enough to show which tables are db shared, e.g. pg_database? I
> > > don't see any indication from psql \dS. Are our docs clear enough?
> >
> > I don't think \dS should be indicating such a thing. I think it's documented
> > well enough: if you are doing something that it matters enough which
> > tables are shared, you really oughtta know about them anyway.
>
> Yeah. The user can't create new ones either, so why would it matter?
I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace. The issue comes
up when I do admin training about the system tables.
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com
+ It's impossible for everything to be true. +
From: | Jeff MacDonald <jam(at)zoidtechnologies(dot)com> |
---|---|
To: | pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org |
Subject: | Re: Indication of db-shared tables |
Date: | 2011-06-22 13:27:36 |
Message-ID: | 201106220927.36245.jam@zoidtechnologies.com |
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Greetings,
On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 09:10:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
> per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace. The issue comes
> up when I do admin training about the system tables.
+1
I favor features that make training easier for the teacher.
Regards,
J
From: | Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com> |
---|---|
To: | Jeff MacDonald <jam(at)zoidtechnologies(dot)com> |
Cc: | pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org> |
Subject: | Re: Indication of db-shared tables |
Date: | 2011-06-22 17:00:23 |
Message-ID: | 1308761951-sup-8458@alvh.no-ip.org |
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Excerpts from Jeff MacDonald's message of mié jun 22 09:27:36 -0400 2011:
> Greetings,
>
> On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 09:10:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
> > per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace. The issue comes
> > up when I do admin training about the system tables.
>
> +1
>
> I favor features that make training easier for the teacher.
So what UI would you guys propose? I don't think widening the output of
frequently used commands like \d or \d+ is okay for a feature with this
small a use case.
--
Álvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com>
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
From: | Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> |
---|---|
To: | Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com> |
Cc: | Jeff MacDonald <jam(at)zoidtechnologies(dot)com>, pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org> |
Subject: | Re: Indication of db-shared tables |
Date: | 2011-06-22 18:31:51 |
Message-ID: | 201106221831.p5MIVpB00382@momjian.us |
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Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Excerpts from Jeff MacDonald's message of mi jun 22 09:27:36 -0400 2011:
> > Greetings,
> >
> > On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 09:10:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
> > > per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace. The issue comes
> > > up when I do admin training about the system tables.
> >
> > +1
> >
> > I favor features that make training easier for the teacher.
>
> So what UI would you guys propose? I don't think widening the output of
> frequently used commands like \d or \d+ is okay for a feature with this
> small a use case.
I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
I can put it there.
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com
+ It's impossible for everything to be true. +
From: | Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com> |
---|---|
To: | Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> |
Cc: | Jeff MacDonald <jam(at)zoidtechnologies(dot)com>, pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org> |
Subject: | Re: Indication of db-shared tables |
Date: | 2011-06-22 19:23:09 |
Message-ID: | 1308770538-sup-2091@alvh.no-ip.org |
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Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mié jun 22 14:31:51 -0400 2011:
> Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> > Excerpts from Jeff MacDonald's message of mi jun 22 09:27:36 -0400 2011:
> > > Greetings,
> > >
> > > On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 09:10:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > > I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
> > > > per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace. The issue comes
> > > > up when I do admin training about the system tables.
> > >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > I favor features that make training easier for the teacher.
> >
> > So what UI would you guys propose? I don't think widening the output of
> > frequently used commands like \d or \d+ is okay for a feature with this
> > small a use case.
>
> I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
> I can put it there.
That would be OK with me, I guess -- something like "shared system
catalog for databases", you mean?
--
Álvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com>
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
From: | Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> |
---|---|
To: | Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com> |
Cc: | Jeff MacDonald <jam(at)zoidtechnologies(dot)com>, pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org> |
Subject: | Re: Indication of db-shared tables |
Date: | 2011-06-22 19:24:40 |
Message-ID: | 201106221924.p5MJOei08770@momjian.us |
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Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mi jun 22 14:31:51 -0400 2011:
> > Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> > > Excerpts from Jeff MacDonald's message of mi jun 22 09:27:36 -0400 2011:
> > > > Greetings,
> > > >
> > > > On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 09:10:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > > > I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
> > > > > per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace. The issue comes
> > > > > up when I do admin training about the system tables.
> > > >
> > > > +1
> > > >
> > > > I favor features that make training easier for the teacher.
> > >
> > > So what UI would you guys propose? I don't think widening the output of
> > > frequently used commands like \d or \d+ is okay for a feature with this
> > > small a use case.
> >
> > I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
> > I can put it there.
>
> That would be OK with me, I guess -- something like "shared system
> catalog for databases", you mean?
I was thinking "(shared)" as part of the description.
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com
+ It's impossible for everything to be true. +
From: | Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com> |
---|---|
To: | Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> |
Cc: | Jeff MacDonald <jam(at)zoidtechnologies(dot)com>, pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org> |
Subject: | Re: Indication of db-shared tables |
Date: | 2011-06-22 19:29:33 |
Message-ID: | 1308770929-sup-91@alvh.no-ip.org |
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Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mié jun 22 15:24:40 -0400 2011:
> Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> > Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mi jun 22 14:31:51 -0400 2011:
> > > I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
> > > I can put it there.
> >
> > That would be OK with me, I guess -- something like "shared system
> > catalog for databases", you mean?
>
> I was thinking "(shared)" as part of the description.
Well, that's what I was proposing above, sans the (unnecessary?) parens.
--
Álvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com>
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
From: | Andrew Dunstan <andrew(at)dunslane(dot)net> |
---|---|
To: | Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> |
Cc: | Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com>, Jeff MacDonald <jam(at)zoidtechnologies(dot)com>, pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org> |
Subject: | Re: Indication of db-shared tables |
Date: | 2011-06-22 19:33:23 |
Message-ID: | 4E024383.3010001@dunslane.net |
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On 06/22/2011 03:24 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>>>
>>> I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
>>> I can put it there.
>> That would be OK with me, I guess -- something like "shared system
>> catalog for databases", you mean?
> I was thinking "(shared)" as part of the description.
>
I'm a bit unclear who this is going to help much. If you know what a
shared table is you're pretty likely to know which tables are shared -
there aren't that many of them after all. If you don't, this description
is at least as likely to confuse you as help you in any way. I don't
have strong feelings, just a bit of a suspicion that this isn't going to
do much good.
cheers
andrew
From: | Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> |
---|---|
To: | Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com> |
Cc: | Jeff MacDonald <jam(at)zoidtechnologies(dot)com>, pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org> |
Subject: | Re: Indication of db-shared tables |
Date: | 2011-06-22 19:33:29 |
Message-ID: | 201106221933.p5MJXTE00501@momjian.us |
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Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mi jun 22 15:24:40 -0400 2011:
> > Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> > > Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mi jun 22 14:31:51 -0400 2011:
>
> > > > I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
> > > > I can put it there.
> > >
> > > That would be OK with me, I guess -- something like "shared system
> > > catalog for databases", you mean?
> >
> > I was thinking "(shared)" as part of the description.
>
> Well, that's what I was proposing above, sans the (unnecessary?) parens.
OK.
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com
+ It's impossible for everything to be true. +