Re: knngist plans

I would like to ask in which future version of postgresql knngist is planned
to be included. Is there any possibility to be included in 9.1?

On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Marios Vodas <mvodas(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
> I would like to ask in which future version of postgresql knngist is planned
> to be included. Is there any possibility to be included in 9.1?

There's a possibility, but I think the patch still needs some more
work. One thing that would help is if someone felt motivated to write
some documentation.

--
Robert Haas
EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

Recently I worked a lot with gist and read about knngist. I have spotted
weaknesses in docs. So I would be happy to help if you tell me how.

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 5:57 AM, Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Marios Vodas <mvodas(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
> > I would like to ask in which future version of postgresql knngist is
> planned
> > to be included. Is there any possibility to be included in 9.1?
>
> There's a possibility, but I think the patch still needs some more
> work. One thing that would help is if someone felt motivated to write
> some documentation.
>
> --
> Robert Haas
> EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>

On Fri, 15 Oct 2010, Marios Vodas wrote:

> Recently I worked a lot with gist and read about knngist. I have spotted
> weaknesses in docs. So I would be happy to help if you tell me how.

We have some documentation already, Teodor will post soon. Marios,
I'd happy to help in writing docs. Do you have some plans ?

>
> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 5:57 AM, Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Marios Vodas <mvodas(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>>> I would like to ask in which future version of postgresql knngist is
>> planned
>>> to be included. Is there any possibility to be included in 9.1?
>>
>> There's a possibility, but I think the patch still needs some more
>> work. One thing that would help is if someone felt motivated to write
>> some documentation.
>>
>> --
>> Robert Haas
>> EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>
>

Regards,
Oleg
_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru),
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia
Internet: oleg(at)sai(dot)msu(dot)su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83

Oleg as I said I do believe some things could get better in docs.
Here are 4 main drawbacks in my opinion:
1. The docs lack example(s). There are some references to gistproc.c etc but
this is not part of the docs and if I am someone that has just started this
is hard and confusing (I shouldn't have to read the full technical solution
to another problem in order to solve mine).
2. The 7 methods are poorly explained, at least theoretically. For example
when I started I couldn't understand where each function was used. I had to
read papers to understand the logic.
3. Describe situations that gist can be used. I am aware of spatial indexing
because I worked on it, but I have the impression that there are more (e.g.
computational biology).
4. Why not add some images/figures? (1 image = 1000 words)

GiST is a very important and useful part of postgresql but it's hard to get
started with it. Moreover, I am sure it has capabilities, other than the
profound, that are not known to many people (including me).
Plus knngist will give gist a boost, and I suggest that it shouldn't be
delayed any more.

We have some documentation already, Teodor will post soon.

I would really like to see what Teodor has done.

I could also prepare a document with the additions I would like to see in
docs. Shall I do it? Of course it might take a while to finish it.

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Oleg Bartunov <oleg(at)sai(dot)msu(dot)su> wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Oct 2010, Marios Vodas wrote:
>
> Recently I worked a lot with gist and read about knngist. I have spotted
>> weaknesses in docs. So I would be happy to help if you tell me how.
>>
>
> We have some documentation already, Teodor will post soon. Marios, I'd
> happy to help in writing docs. Do you have some plans ?
>
>
>
>> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 5:57 AM, Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Marios Vodas <mvodas(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would like to ask in which future version of postgresql knngist is
>>>>
>>> planned
>>>
>>>> to be included. Is there any possibility to be included in 9.1?
>>>>
>>>
>>> There's a possibility, but I think the patch still needs some more
>>> work. One thing that would help is if someone felt motivated to write
>>> some documentation.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Robert Haas
>>> EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>>> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>>
>>>
>>
> Regards,
> Oleg
> _____________________________________________________________
> Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru),
> Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia
> Internet: oleg(at)sai(dot)msu(dot)su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/<http://www.sai.msu.su/%7Emegera/>
> phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83
>

Excerpts from Marios Vodas's message of sáb oct 16 11:11:52 -0300 2010:

> 4. Why not add some images/figures? (1 image = 1000 words)

I can answer this: the reason is that we haven't settled on a
technology for producing figures. There's a thread about it, but no
consensus.

--
Álvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com>
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

Marios,

you're right. There are several reasons for poor documentation, but of course,
no excuse, we do need good docs any way ! It's very nice you're willing to
write one, since it's always better seen from outside of development.
I think it'd be better to use wiki, so other people can join.
Pictures would be nice, but I don't know if there is consensus about using
pictures in documentation.

Oleg

btw, we're thinking in the background about new indexing infrastructure -
Spatial GiST, but it's rather big project, so we need sponsors.

On Sat, 16 Oct 2010, Marios Vodas wrote:

> Oleg as I said I do believe some things could get better in docs.
> Here are 4 main drawbacks in my opinion:
> 1. The docs lack example(s). There are some references to gistproc.c etc but
> this is not part of the docs and if I am someone that has just started this
> is hard and confusing (I shouldn't have to read the full technical solution
> to another problem in order to solve mine).
> 2. The 7 methods are poorly explained, at least theoretically. For example
> when I started I couldn't understand where each function was used. I had to
> read papers to understand the logic.
> 3. Describe situations that gist can be used. I am aware of spatial indexing
> because I worked on it, but I have the impression that there are more (e.g.
> computational biology).
> 4. Why not add some images/figures? (1 image = 1000 words)
>
> GiST is a very important and useful part of postgresql but it's hard to get
> started with it. Moreover, I am sure it has capabilities, other than the
> profound, that are not known to many people (including me).
> Plus knngist will give gist a boost, and I suggest that it shouldn't be
> delayed any more.
>
> We have some documentation already, Teodor will post soon.
>
> I would really like to see what Teodor has done.
>
> I could also prepare a document with the additions I would like to see in
> docs. Shall I do it? Of course it might take a while to finish it.
>
> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Oleg Bartunov <oleg(at)sai(dot)msu(dot)su> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2010, Marios Vodas wrote:
>>
>> Recently I worked a lot with gist and read about knngist. I have spotted
>>> weaknesses in docs. So I would be happy to help if you tell me how.
>>>
>>
>> We have some documentation already, Teodor will post soon. Marios, I'd
>> happy to help in writing docs. Do you have some plans ?
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 5:57 AM, Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Marios Vodas <mvodas(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would like to ask in which future version of postgresql knngist is
>>>>>
>>>> planned
>>>>
>>>>> to be included. Is there any possibility to be included in 9.1?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's a possibility, but I think the patch still needs some more
>>>> work. One thing that would help is if someone felt motivated to write
>>>> some documentation.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Robert Haas
>>>> EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>>>> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> Regards,
>> Oleg
>> _____________________________________________________________
>> Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru),
>> Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia
>> Internet: oleg(at)sai(dot)msu(dot)su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/<http://www.sai.msu.su/%7Emegera/>
>> phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83
>>
>

Regards,
Oleg
_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru),
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia
Internet: oleg(at)sai(dot)msu(dot)su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83

On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Oleg Bartunov <oleg(at)sai(dot)msu(dot)su> wrote:

> Marios,
>
> you're right. There are several reasons for poor documentation, but of
> course,
> no excuse, we do need good docs any way ! It's very nice you're willing to
> write one, since it's always better seen from outside of development.
> I think it'd be better to use wiki, so other people can join.
> Pictures would be nice, but I don't know if there is consensus about using
> pictures in documentation.
>

Wiki sounds good. Where can I find it?

> Oleg
>
> btw, we're thinking in the background about new indexing infrastructure -
> Spatial GiST, but it's rather big project, so we need sponsors.

Is it related to SP-GIST (http://www.cs.purdue.edu/spgist/)?

On Tue, 19 Oct 2010, Marios Vodas wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Oleg Bartunov <oleg(at)sai(dot)msu(dot)su> wrote:
>
>> Marios,
>>
>> you're right. There are several reasons for poor documentation, but of
>> course,
>> no excuse, we do need good docs any way ! It's very nice you're willing to
>> write one, since it's always better seen from outside of development.
>> I think it'd be better to use wiki, so other people can join.
>> Pictures would be nice, but I don't know if there is consensus about using
>> pictures in documentation.
>>
>
> Wiki sounds good. Where can I find it?

Lets start from this page.
http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/GiST
I think this page should be index page for all GiST documentation.

>
>
>> Oleg
>>
>> btw, we're thinking in the background about new indexing infrastructure -
>> Spatial GiST, but it's rather big project, so we need sponsors.
>
>
> Is it related to SP-GIST (http://www.cs.purdue.edu/spgist/)?

sort of.

Regards,
Oleg
_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru),
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia
Internet: oleg(at)sai(dot)msu(dot)su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83