Re: beta5 ...

> > So, what was the case against using yield (2) ?
>
> $ man 2 yield
> No entry for yield in section 2 of the manual.
>
> Lack of portability :-(

I can't beleive that AIX finally has a convenience function that
is missing in mainstream unix :-)

$man 2 yield
Purpose
Yields the processor to processes with higher priorities.
Description
The yield subroutine forces the current running process or thread to relinquish
use of the processor. If the run queue is empty when the yield subroutine is
called, the calling process or kernel thread is immediately rescheduled. If the
calling process has multiple threads, only the calling thread is affected. The
process or thread resumes execution after all threads of equal or greater
priority are scheduled to run.

Andreas

> I can't beleive that AIX finally has a convenience function that
> is missing in mainstream unix :-)

Better not report it; they'll take it out ;)

- Thomas

Hi all,

As a matter of curiosity, is each beta compiled and then regression
tested against *every* one of the known "supported" platforms before
release?

Like, as an official "checklist" type step?

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift
Database Administrator

> As a matter of curiosity, is each beta compiled and then regression
> tested against *every* one of the known "supported" platforms before
> release?

No. But the changes from beta to beta are usually done with platform
compatibility in mind, and we try to stay away from introducing
platform-specific breakage.

We *do* make a great effort to solicit regression tests on all supported
platforms between first beta and final release, with an explicit push
during the last beta cycle, just before docs freeze for the release.
This is easy for the common platforms, and we have been fortunate that
the more exotic platforms have usually had an interested supporter to
run the tests and report results.

Lack of reported regression tests for a release or two is sufficient
cause to drop a platform to the "unsupported" list. We don't remove the
platform from all lists to help remind us that the platform *could* be
supported, and once was, in case someone wants to rehabilitate its
status.

- Thomas

>> As a matter of curiosity, is each beta compiled and then regression
>> tested against *every* one of the known "supported" platforms before
>> release?

Who are you expecting to do that, exactly?

One of the differences between Postgres and a proprietary commercial
database is that there is no vast support machinery behind the scenes.
What you see going on on this list is what you get: beta testing
consists of the activities performed and reported by list members.

Normally, if we are about to push out a beta then two or three people
will double-check that the current CVS tip builds and passes regression
on their personal machines. But the "supported platforms" coverage
depicted in the docs consists of all the platforms that are reported to
us as working during the entire beta test period, including many that
the key developers have no direct access to. There's no way that we
could reverse the process and cause that to happen before a beta release
instead of after; certainly no way that we could cause all that effort
to be repeated for each beta version.

If you are using a beta version then you are part of that testing
process, not a beneficiary of something that's happened behind closed
doors.

regards, tom lane

I was just thinking that perhaps as part of the "beta" release process
it would be worthwhile saying "New beta about to be released" (or
similar) and then have the appropriate people for each platform/OS do a
compile against the up-to-the-minute CVS and give a yes/no for each of
their platforms.

In a way, this seems to be done presently, but without the addition of a
formalised checklist of "platforms this beta compiles/regress-tests on
as of release time".

I'm thinking about the release process.

+ Justin

Tom Lane wrote:
>
> >> As a matter of curiosity, is each beta compiled and then regression
> >> tested against *every* one of the known "supported" platforms before
> >> release?
>
> Who are you expecting to do that, exactly?
>
> One of the differences between Postgres and a proprietary commercial
> database is that there is no vast support machinery behind the scenes.
> What you see going on on this list is what you get: beta testing
> consists of the activities performed and reported by list members.
>
> Normally, if we are about to push out a beta then two or three people
> will double-check that the current CVS tip builds and passes regression
> on their personal machines. But the "supported platforms" coverage
> depicted in the docs consists of all the platforms that are reported to
> us as working during the entire beta test period, including many that
> the key developers have no direct access to. There's no way that we
> could reverse the process and cause that to happen before a beta release
> instead of after; certainly no way that we could cause all that effort
> to be repeated for each beta version.
>
> If you are using a beta version then you are part of that testing
> process, not a beneficiary of something that's happened behind closed
> doors.
>
> regards, tom lane

Justin Clift wrote:
>
> I was just thinking that perhaps as part of the "beta" release process
> it would be worthwhile saying "New beta about to be released" (or
> similar) and then have the appropriate people for each platform/OS do a
> compile against the up-to-the-minute CVS and give a yes/no for each of
> their platforms.

What would the big advantage to releasing the beta and testing _that_ be
?

Apart from delaying the beta, that is ;) ?

It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.

----------
Hannu

Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
relatively quickly?

On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Hannu Krosing wrote:

> Justin Clift wrote:
> >
> > I was just thinking that perhaps as part of the "beta" release process
> > it would be worthwhile saying "New beta about to be released" (or
> > similar) and then have the appropriate people for each platform/OS do a
> > compile against the up-to-the-minute CVS and give a yes/no for each of
> > their platforms.
>
> What would the big advantage to releasing the beta and testing _that_ be
> ?
>
> Apart from delaying the beta, that is ;) ?
>
> It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
> central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
> scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.
>
> ----------
> Hannu
>

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Tom Lane wrote:

> The Hermit Hacker <scrappy(at)hub(dot)org> writes:
> > Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
> > relatively quickly?
>
> > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Hannu Krosing wrote:
> >> It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
> >> central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
> >> scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.
>
> Sounded like a great idea to me too. If Vince doesn't want to mess with
> it, I'll try to stir up some interest at Great Bridge.

Something like this, I think, is more appropriate on the project site,
that's all ...

The Hermit Hacker <scrappy(at)hub(dot)org> writes:
> Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
> relatively quickly?

> On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Hannu Krosing wrote:
>> It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
>> central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
>> scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.

Sounded like a great idea to me too. If Vince doesn't want to mess with
it, I'll try to stir up some interest at Great Bridge.

regards, tom lane

Hannu Krosing writes:

> It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
> central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
> scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.

"Platform already tested" is a misguided concept. Almost any machine is
customized or deviating in some form or other. A listing of the form

beta1 beta2 ...
Linux ok ok
Solaris ok broken
...

is, IMHO, worse than useless, because it would actually decrease the
amount of wide-spread, diverse testing.

I wouldn't mind an automated process that builds and runs the test suite
regularly on many machines to inform developers during the development
cycle that they broke something really bad, but to make this part of the
beta testing process is sheer folly.

--
Peter Eisentraut peter_e(at)gmx(dot)net http://yi.org/peter-e/

Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Hannu Krosing writes:
> > It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
> > central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
> > scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.

> "Platform already tested" is a misguided concept. Almost any machine is
> customized or deviating in some form or other. A listing of the form

> beta1 beta2 ...
> Linux ok ok
> Solaris ok broken
> ...

> is, IMHO, worse than useless, because it would actually decrease the
> amount of wide-spread, diverse testing.

It goes even further than that, of course -- there are different
versions to worry about. As a hypothetical, suppose for a moment that
PostgreSQL works fine on a Linux 2.2.17 box with glibc 2.1.3, but does
not work fine on Linux 2.4.1 with glibc 2.2 due to some undocumented
change to strncmp() (;-)). Currently, we're not that fine-grained --
while regression results are useful for ascertaining what is and isn't
supported, the regression results are very dependent on the environment
of the machine.

Any process that would discourage widespread testing is not good, IMHO.

Having a form by which you could register pass/fail/diffs for your
particular platform/environment could be good, with a blank slate each
release. But a blanket 'we support Linux' is, IMHO, not good -- _which_
Linux? 1.0? 1.2? 2.0? 2.0.38 but not 2.0.15? With libc 4 in a.out? Or
do you have to have ELF Libc 5? Libc 5.2.38 works, but 5.4.44 doesn't?
Glibc 2.0.5 but not 2.1.3? RedHat kernel 2.2.17 but not SuSE kernel
2.2.17? And, the worst: RedHat kernel 2.2.18 for RedHat 7 versus RedHat
kernel 2.2.18 for RedHat 6.2 (the kernel patches applied could in fact
be different enough to matter)?

These are all hypothetical examples, of course -- but Linux is not the
only platform that has these versioning problems just waiting to bite.
Linux probably has more of them than most, but it is not alone in having
them.
--
Lamar Owen
WGCR Internet Radio
1 Peter 4:11

On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

>
> Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
> relatively quickly?

The beta or registering the results? After the last time I won't
put beta releases on the website, but if you want the results thing
it can be done in a short time. Just tell me what info you want
in it and it'll be there.

Vince.

>
> On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Hannu Krosing wrote:
>
> > Justin Clift wrote:
> > >
> > > I was just thinking that perhaps as part of the "beta" release process
> > > it would be worthwhile saying "New beta about to be released" (or
> > > similar) and then have the appropriate people for each platform/OS do a
> > > compile against the up-to-the-minute CVS and give a yes/no for each of
> > > their platforms.
> >
> > What would the big advantage to releasing the beta and testing _that_ be
> > ?
> >
> > Apart from delaying the beta, that is ;) ?
> >
> > It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
> > central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
> > scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.
> >
> > ----------
> > Hannu
> >
>
> Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
> Systems Administrator @ hub.org
> primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org
>
>

--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com http://www.pop4.net
128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================

On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
>
> >
> > Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
> > relatively quickly?
>
> The beta or registering the results? After the last time I won't
> put beta releases on the website, but if you want the results thing
> it can be done in a short time. Just tell me what info you want
> in it and it'll be there.

Hrmmm ... some sort of input form where someone can enter OS specific
info, and maybe upload the results of the regression tests as far as
'failed' or 'succeeded'? the report generated would list the OS info and
x out of y tests failed ... and a link to a full listing of which
failed/succeeded?

> > Vince.
>
> >
> > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Hannu Krosing wrote:
> >
> > > Justin Clift wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I was just thinking that perhaps as part of the "beta" release process
> > > > it would be worthwhile saying "New beta about to be released" (or
> > > > similar) and then have the appropriate people for each platform/OS do a
> > > > compile against the up-to-the-minute CVS and give a yes/no for each of
> > > > their platforms.
> > >
> > > What would the big advantage to releasing the beta and testing _that_ be
> > > ?
> > >
> > > Apart from delaying the beta, that is ;) ?
> > >
> > > It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
> > > central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
> > > scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > Hannu
> > >
> >
> > Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
> > Systems Administrator @ hub.org
> > primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org
> >
> >
>
> --
> ==========================================================================
> Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com http://www.pop4.net
> 128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
> Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
> Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
> ==========================================================================
>
>
>
>

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org secondary: scrappy(at){freebsd|postgresql}.org

I have a bunch of machines here, some are rather old (K6-200s,P133s, some
486s etc) but they're just collecting dust now. I would be more than happy
to install any OS and do build testing for PostgreSQL is there is a need..

What OSes need to have PostgreSQL built/tested on that the developers don't
have access to? If I can get the OS (and install it), I would be happy to
dedicate those machines to PG build testing.. I could set them up on the
network here (proxy, cable modem) or at the office (T1) and give developers
access if needed too.

I have several FreeBSD boxes running PG beta 4 now, but I'd bet at least one
of you is using FreeBSD (and it compiles and installs rather nicely
anyway)..

-Mitch

On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
> > > relatively quickly?
> >
> > The beta or registering the results? After the last time I won't
> > put beta releases on the website, but if you want the results thing
> > it can be done in a short time. Just tell me what info you want
> > in it and it'll be there.
>
> Hrmmm ... some sort of input form where someone can enter OS specific
> info, and maybe upload the results of the regression tests as far as
> 'failed' or 'succeeded'? the report generated would list the OS info and
> x out of y tests failed ... and a link to a full listing of which
> failed/succeeded?

Lemme see what I can cobble together taking into consideration some of
the things Lamar and Peter also mentioned. Note: I'm probably 450
messagees behind due to a 2 day dsl outage; I may have missed some of
the conversation. Some messages trickled in, the rest flooded in over
night. I may be nearing the time for incoming mail folders :)

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com http://www.pop4.net
128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================

Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> the things Lamar and Peter also mentioned. Note: I'm probably 450
> messagees behind due to a 2 day dsl outage; I may have missed some of
> the conversation. Some messages trickled in, the rest flooded in over
> night. I may be nearing the time for incoming mail folders :)

Join the club. I have just finished configuring my Netscape e-mail for
incoming folders -- _important_ direct e-mails (having to to with my
actual job) were getting lost in and amongst the various lists I am a
member of. I get around 600 e-mails per day on fifteen or so different
mailing lists (the ones at PostgreSQL.org, a half dozen at
Broadcast.net, Bugtraq/Linux-alert/RedHat-announce, redhat-beta,
AOLserver/OpenNSD/OpenACS, and a handful of Linux announce lists,
unixODBC, CERT, plus all of our Internet listeners). Netscapes filters
are a lifesaver! Of course, there are other more capable packages out
there, but Netscape works the same on Win9x and Linux, both of which are
in use on my notebook.

I have to keep up, or the e-mail flood after a couple of days is just
about unbearable.
--
Lamar Owen
WGCR Internet Radio
1 Peter 4:11

* Lamar Owen <lamar(dot)owen(at)wgcr(dot)org> [010221 16:36]:
> Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> > the things Lamar and Peter also mentioned. Note: I'm probably 450
> > messagees behind due to a 2 day dsl outage; I may have missed some of
> > the conversation. Some messages trickled in, the rest flooded in over
> > night. I may be nearing the time for incoming mail folders :)
>
> Join the club. I have just finished configuring my Netscape e-mail for
> incoming folders -- _important_ direct e-mails (having to to with my
> actual job) were getting lost in and amongst the various lists I am a
> member of. I get around 600 e-mails per day on fifteen or so different
> mailing lists (the ones at PostgreSQL.org, a half dozen at
> Broadcast.net, Bugtraq/Linux-alert/RedHat-announce, redhat-beta,
> AOLserver/OpenNSD/OpenACS, and a handful of Linux announce lists,
> unixODBC, CERT, plus all of our Internet listeners). Netscapes filters
> are a lifesaver! Of course, there are other more capable packages out
> there, but Netscape works the same on Win9x and Linux, both of which are
> in use on my notebook.
>
> I have to keep up, or the e-mail flood after a couple of days is just
> about unbearable.
slocal/procmail/mutt on a Unix Box makes it easier.

My Mailing list stuff gets filtered off.

LER

> --
> Lamar Owen
> WGCR Internet Radio
> 1 Peter 4:11
--
Larry Rosenman http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 972-414-9812 E-Mail: ler(at)lerctr(dot)org
US Mail: 1905 Steamboat Springs Drive, Garland, TX 75044-6749

On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
> > > relatively quickly?
> >
> > The beta or registering the results? After the last time I won't
> > put beta releases on the website, but if you want the results thing
> > it can be done in a short time. Just tell me what info you want
> > in it and it'll be there.
>
> Hrmmm ... some sort of input form where someone can enter OS specific
> info, and maybe upload the results of the regression tests as far as
> 'failed' or 'succeeded'? the report generated would list the OS info and
> x out of y tests failed ... and a link to a full listing of which
> failed/succeeded?

http://hub.org/~vev/regress.php

What other info is needed to distinguish these systems?

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com http://www.pop4.net
128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================

Hi Vince,

That's really nifty.

I don't know how to word it, but I think it might be worth including
something to find out if the machine was "out-of-the box" with just the
recommended installation utils (i.e. a "new build" of AIX, NT, Solaris,
etc, then gcc, bison or whatever) vs. a machine that has been actively
used/developed with for a while.

This is so we can accurately know if a particular version/beta of
PostgreSQL compiles on a stock(-ish) system or if the successful/failed
reports are only coming from those machines with updated/newer/different
things added.

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift
Database Administrator

Vince Vielhaber wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> http://hub.org/~vev/regress.php
>
> What other info is needed to distinguish these systems?
>
> Vince.
> --
> ==========================================================================
> Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com http://www.pop4.net
> 128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
> Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
> Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
> ==========================================================================

What about adding a field where they paste the output of 'uname -a' on their
system...?

Chris

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pgsql-hackers-owner(at)postgresql(dot)org
> [mailto:pgsql-hackers-owner(at)postgresql(dot)org]On Behalf Of Justin Clift
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 12:52 PM
> To: Vince Vielhaber
> Cc: pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org
> Subject: Re: [HACKERS] beta5 ...
>
>
> Hi Vince,
>
> That's really nifty.
>
> I don't know how to word it, but I think it might be worth including
> something to find out if the machine was "out-of-the box" with just the
> recommended installation utils (i.e. a "new build" of AIX, NT, Solaris,
> etc, then gcc, bison or whatever) vs. a machine that has been actively
> used/developed with for a while.
>
> This is so we can accurately know if a particular version/beta of
> PostgreSQL compiles on a stock(-ish) system or if the successful/failed
> reports are only coming from those machines with updated/newer/different
> things added.
>
> Regards and best wishes,
>
> Justin Clift
> Database Administrator
>
> Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > http://hub.org/~vev/regress.php
> >
> > What other info is needed to distinguish these systems?
> >
> > Vince.
> > --
> >
> ==========================================================================
> > Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com
http://www.pop4.net
> 128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
> Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
> Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
> ==========================================================================

On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote:

> What about adding a field where they paste the output of 'uname -a' on their
> system...?

Got this and Justin's changes along with compiler version. Anyone think
of anything else?

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com http://www.pop4.net
128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================

Vince Vielhaber writes:
> On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote:
>
> > What about adding a field where they paste the output of 'uname
> > -a' on their system...?
>
> Got this and Justin's changes along with compiler version. Anyone
> think of anything else?

Architecture. IRIX, Solaris and AIX allow applications and libraries
to be built 32 or 64 bit.

You may also like to add a field for configure options used. Or is
this just for results OOTB?
--
Pete Forman -./\.- Disclaimer: This post is originated
WesternGeco -./\.- by myself and does not represent
pete(dot)forman(at)westerngeco(dot)com -./\.- opinion of Schlumberger, Baker
http://www.crosswinds.net/~petef -./\.- Hughes or their divisions.

Vince Vielhaber writes:

> http://hub.org/~vev/regress.php
>
> What other info is needed to distinguish these systems?

The operating systems should be ordered by some key other than maybe
author's preference. ;-)

Linux needs to be split into one for each distribution.

'Sun' should probably be SunOS.

Also of interest:

- config.guess output

- Linker version

- GNU make version

- configure command line (`pg_config --configure`)

Bison version is probably not interesting, since anything but 1.28 is not
to be considered serious.

'Platform' could be better named 'CPU type'. 'CPU speed' and 'Total RAM'
are probably not interesting for anything but statistics.

'libc' version is probably not interesting for anything but Linux? If
so, it is already implied if you name the distributor.

--
Peter Eisentraut peter_e(at)gmx(dot)net http://yi.org/peter-e/

> Got this and Justin's changes along with compiler version. Anyone think
> of anything else?

Hmm. Any suggestions on how we collate the test results for our release
docs? And how we solicit tests for remaining platforms?

In previous releases (and until now), I have kept track of results
posted on the -hackers mailing list, and then when the beta cycle winds
down would send out a list containing those platforms which have not yet
been tested.

It was easy for me to do, and it gave visibility on the developers' list
for the current status of testing.

Should the procedure now change? And if so, have we just signed me up
for more work rummaging around a web page to transcribe results? :/

Could we perhaps have a reference on that page to the current
developer's doc page of "supported platforms"? That would help tie the
current state of the docs to the current state of the web site report
form, and it would let people know that they might also post their
results to the -hackers list to make sure that their results are known
to others. If we are storing this stuff in a database, then perhaps it
would be easy to dump those results in a form which maps into the docs?

<philosophy style=randomthought mode=aside>
I *know* that having web pages for data entry, etc etc are good things.
But at some point, the fun of working on PG is (at least for me)
interacting with *people*, not web sites, and I'd like to avoid building
in procedures which inadvertently discourage that interaction.
</philosophy>

Suggestions?

- Thomas

On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Pete Forman wrote:

> Vince Vielhaber writes:
> > On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote:
> >
> > > What about adding a field where they paste the output of 'uname
> > > -a' on their system...?
> >
> > Got this and Justin's changes along with compiler version. Anyone
> > think of anything else?
>
> Architecture. IRIX, Solaris and AIX allow applications and libraries
> to be built 32 or 64 bit.

Added.

> You may also like to add a field for configure options used. Or is
> this just for results OOTB?

That comes later. This part is just for identifying the system itself.

Vince.
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On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Peter Eisentraut wrote:

> Vince Vielhaber writes:
>
> > http://hub.org/~vev/regress.php
> >
> > What other info is needed to distinguish these systems?
>
> The operating systems should be ordered by some key other than maybe
> author's preference. ;-)

Actually it's more random than by preference. FreeBSD came first 'cuze
I run it and I always list it first (and alphabetically it comes before
Linux). I then kept the bsds together, but those were actually added
last. Some of the others came from looking at the directory where the
FAQs reside and going in that order.

> Linux needs to be split into one for each distribution.

I need a list of them since the only ones I can think of are redhat, suse
and slackware (does slackware even still exist?).

> 'Sun' should probably be SunOS.

Ok.

> Also of interest:
>
> - config.guess output

comes later. This is mainly for machine identification. But it is noted
since I didn't think of it.

> - Linker version
>
> - GNU make version
>
> - configure command line (`pg_config --configure`)

Comes later.

> Bison version is probably not interesting, since anything but 1.28 is not
> to be considered serious.
>
> 'Platform' could be better named 'CPU type'. 'CPU speed' and 'Total RAM'
> are probably not interesting for anything but statistics.

Changed platform.

> 'libc' version is probably not interesting for anything but Linux? If
> so, it is already implied if you name the distributor.

And if someone upgrades libc? I add that 'cuze when a friend of mine was
using redhat for his isp (quite a while ago) someone upgraded his libc for
him - what a mess that made!

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com http://www.pop4.net
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==========================================================================

On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Thomas Lockhart wrote:

> > Got this and Justin's changes along with compiler version. Anyone think
> > of anything else?
>
> Hmm. Any suggestions on how we collate the test results for our release
> docs? And how we solicit tests for remaining platforms?
>
> In previous releases (and until now), I have kept track of results
> posted on the -hackers mailing list, and then when the beta cycle winds
> down would send out a list containing those platforms which have not yet
> been tested.

Can you provide me with a list of platforms it should be tested on?

>
> It was easy for me to do, and it gave visibility on the developers' list
> for the current status of testing.
>
> Should the procedure now change? And if so, have we just signed me up
> for more work rummaging around a web page to transcribe results? :/

No, I wouldn't do that to you. You tell me how you want the results
to look and I'll give you copy-n-paste. All of this info will be stored
in a table so the output is however it's wanted.

> Could we perhaps have a reference on that page to the current
> developer's doc page of "supported platforms"? That would help tie the
> current state of the docs to the current state of the web site report
> form, and it would let people know that they might also post their
> results to the -hackers list to make sure that their results are known
> to others. If we are storing this stuff in a database, then perhaps it
> would be easy to dump those results in a form which maps into the docs?

No problem.

> <philosophy style=randomthought mode=aside>
> I *know* that having web pages for data entry, etc etc are good things.
> But at some point, the fun of working on PG is (at least for me)
> interacting with *people*, not web sites, and I'd like to avoid building
> in procedures which inadvertently discourage that interaction.
> </philosophy>
>
> Suggestions?

If anything this will make it easier for you and give you more time to
interact and less time to have to dig for results which may not be as
complete as you'd like.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
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Hi Vince,

Here's the next thing... how do you want to distinguish between Solaris
SPARC, Solaris INTEL (and maybe even Solaris MAC even though it isn't
sold any longer)? Each of these has a 32 and 64 bit mode also.

I thought that might be what "Platform" could be used for, but
"Architecture" sounds right.

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift
Database Administrator

Vince Vielhaber wrote:
>
<snip>
> > Bison version is probably not interesting, since anything but 1.28 is not
> > to be considered serious.
> >
> > 'Platform' could be better named 'CPU type'. 'CPU speed' and 'Total RAM'
> > are probably not interesting for anything but statistics.
>
> Changed platform.
>
> > 'libc' version is probably not interesting for anything but Linux? If
> > so, it is already implied if you name the distributor.
>
> And if someone upgrades libc? I add that 'cuze when a friend of mine was
> using redhat for his isp (quite a while ago) someone upgraded his libc for
> him - what a mess that made!
>
> Vince.
> --
> ==========================================================================
> Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev(at)michvhf(dot)com http://www.pop4.net
> 128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
> Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
> Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
> ==========================================================================

> Can you provide me with a list of platforms it should be tested on?

The current list is at

http://www.postgresql.org/devel-corner/docs/admin/supported-platforms.html

> No, I wouldn't do that to you. You tell me how you want the results
> to look and I'll give you copy-n-paste. All of this info will be stored
> in a table so the output is however it's wanted.

OK, if we entered in the current list of supported platforms, or even if
not, that could form the basis for the "solicitation email" to get the
rest of the platforms tested. Look at what I collate in the docs, but if
you give me more that won't be a problem.

btw, for docs I'm not sure how to include much more information, since
it has to fit on a page (in tabular form, presumably). Suggestions?

> > Could we perhaps have a reference on that page to the current
> > developer's doc page of "supported platforms"? <blah blah blah>
> No problem.

Ok, the URL would be the same as above, for *development*. Not sure how
we will do the same info on the "released side" of the web site?

> If anything this will make it easier for you and give you more time to
> interact and less time to have to dig for results which may not be as
> complete as you'd like.

Yup, you are right. Thanks.

Hmm, would generating an email to the -hackers list when something gets
updated be useful? istm it would not end up being spam, but what do
y'all think?

- Thomas