Re: Fwd: pgAdmin III: timestamp displayed in what time zone?

Hi,

I am using Postgres 8.3. I have a table defined like this:

=======================
-- Table: timeson

-- DROP TABLE timeson;

CREATE TABLE timeson
(
id bigint NOT NULL,
enddatetime timestamp without time zone NOT NULL,
startdatetime timestamp without time zone NOT NULL,
times_id bigint,
CONSTRAINT timeson_pkey PRIMARY KEY (id),
CONSTRAINT fkb1af5ba5890cf3da FOREIGN KEY (times_id)
REFERENCES times (id) MATCH SIMPLE
ON UPDATE NO ACTION ON DELETE NO ACTION
)
WITH (OIDS=FALSE);
ALTER TABLE timeson OWNER TO myfreo;

======================
I populate the table with some data and use pgAdmin III 1.8.4 to view the
date "View date> first top100 rows". the question is: in what timezone are
the fields showed in pgAdmin? no timezone (as stored), the server time zone
or the time zone of the computer where pgAdmin runs?

Thanks

Fred

Sorry, I didn't know about this list...

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Fred Janon <fjanon(at)gmail(dot)com>
Date: Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 19:04
Subject: pgAdmin III: timestamp displayed in what time zone?
To: pgsql-general(at)postgresql(dot)org

Hi,

I am using Postgres 8.3. I have a table defined like this:

=======================
-- Table: timeson

-- DROP TABLE timeson;

CREATE TABLE timeson
(
id bigint NOT NULL,
enddatetime timestamp without time zone NOT NULL,
startdatetime timestamp without time zone NOT NULL,
times_id bigint,
CONSTRAINT timeson_pkey PRIMARY KEY (id),
CONSTRAINT fkb1af5ba5890cf3da FOREIGN KEY (times_id)
REFERENCES times (id) MATCH SIMPLE
ON UPDATE NO ACTION ON DELETE NO ACTION
)
WITH (OIDS=FALSE);
ALTER TABLE timeson OWNER TO myfreo;

======================
I populate the table with some data and use pgAdmin III 1.8.4 to view the
date "View date> first top100 rows". the question is: in what timezone are
the fields showed in pgAdmin? no timezone (as stored), the server time zone
or the time zone of the computer where pgAdmin runs?

Thanks

Fred

Sorry if if's a double post, but I thought that it would be more likely I
would get an answer on the hackers list.

Thanks

Fred

---------- ----------
From: Fred Janon <fjanon(at)gmail(dot)com>
Date: Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 19:04
Subject: pgAdmin III: timestamp displayed in what time zone?
To: pgsql-general(at)postgresql(dot)org

Hi,

I am using Postgres 8.3. I have a table defined like this:

=======================
-- Table: timeson

-- DROP TABLE timeson;

CREATE TABLE timeson
(
id bigint NOT NULL,
enddatetime timestamp without time zone NOT NULL,
startdatetime timestamp without time zone NOT NULL,
times_id bigint,
CONSTRAINT timeson_pkey PRIMARY KEY (id),
CONSTRAINT fkb1af5ba5890cf3da FOREIGN KEY (times_id)
REFERENCES times (id) MATCH SIMPLE
ON UPDATE NO ACTION ON DELETE NO ACTION
)
WITH (OIDS=FALSE);
ALTER TABLE timeson OWNER TO myfreo;

======================
I populate the table with some data and use pgAdmin III 1.8.4 to view the
date "View date> first top100 rows". the question is: in what timezone are
the fields showed in pgAdmin? no timezone (as stored), the server time zone
or the time zone of the computer where pgAdmin runs?

Thanks

Fred

On Monday 14 December 2009 3:04:07 am Fred Janon wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am using Postgres 8.3. I have a table defined like this:
>
> =======================
> -- Table: timeson
>
> -- DROP TABLE timeson;
>
> CREATE TABLE timeson
> (
> id bigint NOT NULL,
> enddatetime timestamp without time zone NOT NULL,
> startdatetime timestamp without time zone NOT NULL,
> times_id bigint,
> CONSTRAINT timeson_pkey PRIMARY KEY (id),
> CONSTRAINT fkb1af5ba5890cf3da FOREIGN KEY (times_id)
> REFERENCES times (id) MATCH SIMPLE
> ON UPDATE NO ACTION ON DELETE NO ACTION
> )
> WITH (OIDS=FALSE);
> ALTER TABLE timeson OWNER TO myfreo;
>
> ======================
> I populate the table with some data and use pgAdmin III 1.8.4 to view the
> date "View date> first top100 rows". the question is: in what timezone are
> the fields showed in pgAdmin? no timezone (as stored), the server time zone
> or the time zone of the computer where pgAdmin runs?
>
> Thanks
>
> Fred

For display purposes it has no time zone value, so it is just a literal value.

For calculation purposes per the docs:

http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.4/interactive/datatype-datetime.html

"Conversions between timestamp without time zone and timestamp with time zone
normally assume that the timestamp without time zone value should be taken or
given as timezone local time. A different time zone can be specified for the
conversion using AT TIME ZONE. "

--
Adrian Klaver
aklaver(at)comcast(dot)net

Fred Janon wrote:
> Sorry if if's a double post, but I thought that it would be more
> likely I would get an answer on the hackers list.
In that case just posting here would have been better than hitting
both. I usually ignore any request for help that is posted on more than
one list just to draw attention to itself; I wouldn't be surprised that
are other people who are similarly annoyed by the behavior and do
likewise.

In your case, both lists you picked were the wrong ones, since you're
asking a pgAdmin specific question which isn't the direct topic of any
of the pgsql-* lists; pgadmin-support was the right place for it:
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgadmin-support/

--
Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
greg(at)2ndQuadrant(dot)com www.2ndQuadrant.com

Thanks Greg, at least among the socially unacceptable insults I got the the
right list to post my question in. I am trying to get some help from
(supposedly) helping and knowledgeable people and I get insults in return.

BTW, this list is listed as the list for tech questions in the pgAdmin tips,
therefore if you don't want to be disturb, you might want to remove it from
the pgAdmin tips.

Has someone heard of cyber bullying?

Fred

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 00:44, Greg Smith <greg(at)2ndquadrant(dot)com> wrote:

> Fred Janon wrote:
>
>> Sorry if if's a double post, but I thought that it would be more likely I
>> would get an answer on the hackers list.
>>
> In that case just posting here would have been better than hitting both. I
> usually ignore any request for help that is posted on more than one list
> just to draw attention to itself; I wouldn't be surprised that are other
> people who are similarly annoyed by the behavior and do likewise.
> In your case, both lists you picked were the wrong ones, since you're
> asking a pgAdmin specific question which isn't the direct topic of any of
> the pgsql-* lists; pgadmin-support was the right place for it:
> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgadmin-support/
>
> --
> Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant Baltimore, MD
> PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
> greg(at)2ndQuadrant(dot)com www.2ndQuadrant.com
>
>

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Fred Janon <fjanon(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
> Thanks Greg, at least among the socially unacceptable insults I got the the
> right list to post my question in. I am trying to get some help from
> (supposedly) helping and knowledgeable people and I get insults in return.

I don't want to make what's obviously a bad situation for you worse,
but I think you might want to reconsider your position on this point.
I can't find anything in Greg's email that sounds to me like an
insult. I can see why you might think it's rude, but I have met Greg
and he is a very nice guy and I am pretty sure he's just trying to
help you understand your actions are likely to be interpreted.

I actually spend a lot of time, for which I don't get paid, trying to
make sure that questions posted to the mailing lists which I follow
get answered. I have to admit that, like Greg, I find it annoying
when people post a question that is off-topic for the list, or when
they cross-post the same question to many different lists. That might
not speak well of me, but it seems to me when someone cross-posts
something to multiple mailing lists, they're (a) sending it to many
people who are not interested in or knowledgeable about the topic of
the question and (b) implying that they are entitled to free support
from the community. Well, OK, we do try to provide good support, but
since it is something people do on a volunteer basis, they like to be
asked rather than told what they "have" to do. That probably wasn't
your intention, of course. I actually thought about trying to answer
your question myself, but then realized that as a non-pgadmin user I
had no chance of telling you anything useful. Had Greg not answered,
I probably would have looked up the correct mailing list for you
myself, but that's really about all I would be able to do since it's
outside my area of knowledge.

A few more resources you might want to look at:

http://www.postgresql.org/community/lists/
http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Guide_to_reporting_problems

> BTW, this list is listed as the list for tech questions in the pgAdmin tips,
> therefore if you don't want to be disturb, you might want to remove it from
> the pgAdmin tips.

If there is a tip there that pointed you here in error, we should
probably try to get that fixed, although I certainly have no ability
to change the pgadmin tips myself. I've never even used it, let alone
have access to change the source code. However, I don't think we get
more than one or two pgadmin questions here a year, so I suspect that
whatever the tip says includes some caveats about the circumstances
under which posting to pgsql-hackers is recommended. Feel free to
tell me if I'm wrong.

...Robert

Fred Janon wrote:
> Thanks Greg, at least among the socially unacceptable insults I got
> the the right list to post my question in.
Aww, is somebody having a case of the Monday's?

Frankly that was all useful advice. I was pointing out that despite
what you thought, you might actually be decreasing your chances of
getting an answer to your question in the future if you cross-post the
way you did. Here's an equally helpful hint: when you have a question
you'd like answered, don't insult someone in the group who spends their
time every day answering questions in that area, particularly if they've
actually given you a useful suggestion. Next time, I might be the best
qualified to help you out, and you haven't really endeared yourself to
me with your comments here.

> BTW, this list is listed as the list for tech questions in the pgAdmin
> tips, therefore if you don't want to be disturb, you might want to
> remove it from the pgAdmin tips.

When I look at http://www.pgadmin.org/support/ for example it suggests
the right list. I only see this one listed in the Translation section,
as the place to ask to get added to the translators list. Does anyone
know where the tips section suggesting people send tech questions to
pgsql-hackers he's referring to is at? That seems like it should be
cleaned up to point to the pgAdmin list instead if that's floating
around there somewhere.

Fred, if you could recall exactly what path you followed to end up here
and let us know, we can try to keep someone else from being confused and
instead directed to the right place more directly. It would be a nice
gesture on your part to end our conversation here having done something
useful, rather than with you just venting at me.

--
Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
greg(at)2ndQuadrant(dot)com www.2ndQuadrant.com

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 5:30 AM, Greg Smith <greg(at)2ndquadrant(dot)com> wrote:

> When I look at http://www.pgadmin.org/support/ for example it suggests the
> right list.  I only see this one listed in the Translation section, as the
> place to ask to get added to the translators list.  Does anyone know where
> the tips section suggesting people send tech questions to pgsql-hackers he's
> referring to is at?  That seems like it should be cleaned up to point to the
> pgAdmin list instead if that's floating around there somewhere.

We actually removed the tips from 1.10.x which shipped with PG 8.4,
but prior to that there were 2 tips relating to the mailing lists:

Support for pgAdmin can be requested through the
pgadmin-support(at)postgresql(dot)org mailing list.
New features and developments are discussed by the pgAdmin Developers
through the pgadmin-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org mailing list.

(http://svn.pgadmin.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/branches/REL-1_8_0_PATCHES/pgadmin3/docs/en_US/tips.txt?rev=6770&view=markup)

Neither of those tips has changed since they were committed in July
2003. I also can't find any reference to this list in the docs or the
guru hints.

--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com

Le mardi 15 décembre 2009 à 06:30:15, Greg Smith a écrit :
> [...]
> > BTW, this list is listed as the list for tech questions in the pgAdmin
> > tips, therefore if you don't want to be disturb, you might want to
> > remove it from the pgAdmin tips.
>
> When I look at http://www.pgadmin.org/support/ for example it suggests
> the right list. I only see this one listed in the Translation section,
> as the place to ask to get added to the translators list. Does anyone
> know where the tips section suggesting people send tech questions to
> pgsql-hackers he's referring to is at? That seems like it should be
> cleaned up to point to the pgAdmin list instead if that's floating
> around there somewhere.
>

Sorry Greg, it's fixed now.

> Fred, if you could recall exactly what path you followed to end up here
> and let us know, we can try to keep someone else from being confused and
> instead directed to the right place more directly. It would be a nice
> gesture on your part to end our conversation here having done something
> useful, rather than with you just venting at me.
>

Yeah, it would be interesting to know.

--
Guillaume.
http://www.postgresqlfr.org
http://dalibo.com

Looks like Andrew Dunstan didn't want to go public...

Fred

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Fred Janon <fjanon(at)gmail(dot)com>
Date: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 10:03
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] pgAdmin III: timestamp displayed in what time zone?
To: Andrew Dunstan <andrew(at)dunslane(dot)net>

Thanks for being so polite. At least Greg Smith suggested the right list to
ask. I see that some people still know how to behave socially. BTW, this
list is the list listed in the pgadmin tips for tech questions.

Fred

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 00:07, Andrew Dunstan <andrew(at)dunslane(dot)net> wrote:

>
> That's no excuse at all. Please keep queries like this OFF the -hackers
> list.
>
> cheers
>
> andrew
>
> Fred Janon wrote:
>
>> Sorry if if's a double post, but I thought that it would be more likely I
>> would get an answer on the hackers list.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Fred
>>
>> ---------- ----------
>> From: *Fred Janon* <fjanon(at)gmail(dot)com <mailto:fjanon(at)gmail(dot)com>>
>>
>> Date: Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 19:04
>> Subject: pgAdmin III: timestamp displayed in what time zone?
>> To: pgsql-general(at)postgresql(dot)org <mailto:pgsql-general(at)postgresql(dot)org>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am using Postgres 8.3. I have a table defined like this:
>>
>> =======================
>> -- Table: timeson
>>
>> -- DROP TABLE timeson;
>>
>> CREATE TABLE timeson
>> (
>> id bigint NOT NULL,
>> enddatetime timestamp without time zone NOT NULL,
>> startdatetime timestamp without time zone NOT NULL,
>> times_id bigint,
>> CONSTRAINT timeson_pkey PRIMARY KEY (id),
>> CONSTRAINT fkb1af5ba5890cf3da FOREIGN KEY (times_id)
>> REFERENCES times (id) MATCH SIMPLE
>> ON UPDATE NO ACTION ON DELETE NO ACTION
>> )
>> WITH (OIDS=FALSE);
>> ALTER TABLE timeson OWNER TO myfreo;
>>
>> ======================
>> I populate the table with some data and use pgAdmin III 1.8.4 to view the
>> date "View date> first top100 rows". the question is: in what timezone are
>> the fields showed in pgAdmin? no timezone (as stored), the server time zone
>> or the time zone of the computer where pgAdmin runs?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Fred
>>
>>

*ahem*

You double-post a query *knowing* you shouldn't (otherwise why the
"sorry"?), compounding the error by not picking the right list at all. I
chide you for it privately, not to hide my actions but to keep
irrelevant traffic on the list down, and you then decide it's proper to
post my private reply publicly. I don't think you're in any position to
offer me lessons in netiquette.

cheers

andrew

Fred Janon wrote:
> Looks like Andrew Dunstan didn't want to go public...
>
> Fred
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Fred Janon* <fjanon(at)gmail(dot)com <mailto:fjanon(at)gmail(dot)com>>
> Date: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 10:03
> Subject: Re: [HACKERS] pgAdmin III: timestamp displayed in what time zone?
> To: Andrew Dunstan <andrew(at)dunslane(dot)net <mailto:andrew(at)dunslane(dot)net>>
>
>
> Thanks for being so polite. At least Greg Smith suggested the right
> list to ask. I see that some people still know how to behave socially.
> BTW, this list is the list listed in the pgadmin tips for tech questions.
>
> Fred
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 00:07, Andrew Dunstan <andrew(at)dunslane(dot)net
> <mailto:andrew(at)dunslane(dot)net>> wrote:
>
>
> That's no excuse at all. Please keep queries like this OFF the
> -hackers list.
>
> cheers
>
> andrew
>
> Fred Janon wrote:
>
> Sorry if if's a double post, but I thought that it would be
> more likely I would get an answer on the hackers list.
>
> Thanks
>
> Fred
>
> ---------- ----------
> From: *Fred Janon* <fjanon(at)gmail(dot)com <mailto:fjanon(at)gmail(dot)com>
> <mailto:fjanon(at)gmail(dot)com <mailto:fjanon(at)gmail(dot)com>>>
>
> Date: Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 19:04
> Subject: pgAdmin III: timestamp displayed in what time zone?
> To: pgsql-general(at)postgresql(dot)org
> <mailto:pgsql-general(at)postgresql(dot)org>
> <mailto:pgsql-general(at)postgresql(dot)org
> <mailto:pgsql-general(at)postgresql(dot)org>>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I am using Postgres 8.3. I have a table defined like this:
>
> =======================
> -- Table: timeson
>
> -- DROP TABLE timeson;
>
> CREATE TABLE timeson
> (
> id bigint NOT NULL,
> enddatetime timestamp without time zone NOT NULL,
> startdatetime timestamp without time zone NOT NULL,
> times_id bigint,
> CONSTRAINT timeson_pkey PRIMARY KEY (id),
> CONSTRAINT fkb1af5ba5890cf3da FOREIGN KEY (times_id)
> REFERENCES times (id) MATCH SIMPLE
> ON UPDATE NO ACTION ON DELETE NO ACTION
> )
> WITH (OIDS=FALSE);
> ALTER TABLE timeson OWNER TO myfreo;
>
> ======================
> I populate the table with some data and use pgAdmin III 1.8.4
> to view the date "View date> first top100 rows". the question
> is: in what timezone are the fields showed in pgAdmin? no
> timezone (as stored), the server time zone or the time zone of
> the computer where pgAdmin runs?
>
> Thanks
>
> Fred
>
>
>