Re: New idea for patch tracking

> ------- Original Message -------
> From: Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>
> To: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org>
> Sent: 05/05/07, 03:00:25
> Subject: [HACKERS] New idea for patch tracking
>
> As for #3, again, I don't want us to take on a burdensome patch tracking
> process that is more effort than it is worth, and the lack of people
> jumping to even manage a simple web page for current 8.3 patches has me
> questioning what kind of support a burdensome tracking system would
> receive.

I don't recall hearing you ask for people to help with a web page.

> What I think we can do simply is to have our email software automatically
> number emails submitted to the patches list that already don't have a
> number. This way, all followups, even if moved to the hackers list, would
> maintain that patch number, and if an updated version is posted, the user
> would keep the same number in the email subject.

<snip tracker outline>

Barring a few trivial details, that sounds almost identical to what I proposed.

Regards, Dave

Dave Page wrote:
>
>
> > ------- Original Message -------
> > From: Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>
> > To: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org>
> > Sent: 05/05/07, 03:00:25
> > Subject: [HACKERS] New idea for patch tracking
> >
> > As for #3, again, I don't want us to take on a burdensome patch tracking
> > process that is more effort than it is worth, and the lack of people
> > jumping to even manage a simple web page for current 8.3 patches has me
> > questioning what kind of support a burdensome tracking system would
> > receive.
>
> I don't recall hearing you ask for people to help with a web page.

I want create and maintain a web page that tracks where we are on each
8.3 patch, but have had not takers.

> > What I think we can do simply is to have our email software automatically
> > number emails submitted to the patches list that already don't have a
> > number. This way, all followups, even if moved to the hackers list, would
> > maintain that patch number, and if an updated version is posted, the user
> > would keep the same number in the email subject.
>
> <snip tracker outline>
>
> Barring a few trivial details, that sounds almost identical to what I
> proposed.

Well, Andrew says everyone he talks to doesn't want it. They want a
more comprehensive solution that goes from bug to patch.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Dave Page wrote:

>> Barring a few trivial details, that sounds almost identical to what I
proposed.
>
> Well, Andrew says everyone he talks to doesn't want it. They want a
more comprehensive solution that goes from bug to patch.

Dave can speak for his own views, but I think you're misquoting me somewhat.

I said that a majority of developers wanted to move to use of a tracking
system, not "everyone".

I did say that this patch tracker would be "at best a half measure in
almost everyone's eyes". Note the "almost". That doesn't mean nobody wants
it. Possibly some see significant benefit where I see little or none.
Clearly Dave does. But it does mean that it's not what most people really
want.

I would be prepared to put considerable effort (say, comparable to what I
have put into the buildfarm) into establishing and maintaining a
feature/bug tracker system, if I thought there was enough buyin. I have
not done so in the past because others (principally you) have been against
it, and so it seemed doomed to failure. Unlike the buildfarm, which can
stand on its own, a tracker requires cooperation from the developers in
order to be effective.

Our present change management methods strike me as being analogous to
keeping track of a banking system in a spreadsheet (don't get me started).
It's quite ironic (not to mention sad) given that we are producing a
sophisticated database ...

cheers

andrew

Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Dave Page wrote:
>>
>>> ------- Original Message -------
>>> From: Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>
>>> To: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org>
>>> Sent: 05/05/07, 03:00:25
>>> Subject: [HACKERS] New idea for patch tracking
>>>
>>> As for #3, again, I don't want us to take on a burdensome patch tracking
>>> process that is more effort than it is worth, and the lack of people
>>> jumping to even manage a simple web page for current 8.3 patches has me
>>> questioning what kind of support a burdensome tracking system would
>>> receive.
>> I don't recall hearing you ask for people to help with a web page.
>
> I want create and maintain a web page that tracks where we are on each
> 8.3 patch, but have had not takers.

are you thinking about something like
http://developer.postgresql.org/index.php/Todo:WishlistFor83 on steriods
(ie with more references to actual patches and discussion and
explaination of functionality) or something completely different ?
I'm a bit unsure on how this webpage would differ from a typical
bugtracker ...
Maybe you could give a concrete example for a particular patch in the
queue so that everybody can follow ?

Stefan

Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote:
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > Dave Page wrote:
> >>
> >>> ------- Original Message -------
> >>> From: Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>
> >>> To: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org>
> >>> Sent: 05/05/07, 03:00:25
> >>> Subject: [HACKERS] New idea for patch tracking
> >>>
> >>> As for #3, again, I don't want us to take on a burdensome patch tracking
> >>> process that is more effort than it is worth, and the lack of people
> >>> jumping to even manage a simple web page for current 8.3 patches has me
> >>> questioning what kind of support a burdensome tracking system would
> >>> receive.
> >> I don't recall hearing you ask for people to help with a web page.
> >
> > I want create and maintain a web page that tracks where we are on each
> > 8.3 patch, but have had not takers.
>
> are you thinking about something like
> http://developer.postgresql.org/index.php/Todo:WishlistFor83 on steriods
> (ie with more references to actual patches and discussion and
> explaination of functionality) or something completely different ?
> I'm a bit unsure on how this webpage would differ from a typical
> bugtracker ...
> Maybe you could give a concrete example for a particular patch in the
> queue so that everybody can follow ?

At this point, just one line for each patch, and who is working on it:

Patch, Author Committer
HOT Pavan ?
XML misc Peter
etc.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote:
>> Bruce Momjian wrote:
>>> Dave Page wrote:
>>>>> ------- Original Message -------
>>>>> From: Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>
>>>>> To: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org>
>>>>> Sent: 05/05/07, 03:00:25
>>>>> Subject: [HACKERS] New idea for patch tracking
>>>>>
>>>>> As for #3, again, I don't want us to take on a burdensome patch tracking
>>>>> process that is more effort than it is worth, and the lack of people
>>>>> jumping to even manage a simple web page for current 8.3 patches has me
>>>>> questioning what kind of support a burdensome tracking system would
>>>>> receive.
>>>> I don't recall hearing you ask for people to help with a web page.
>>> I want create and maintain a web page that tracks where we are on each
>>> 8.3 patch, but have had not takers.
>> are you thinking about something like
>> http://developer.postgresql.org/index.php/Todo:WishlistFor83 on steriods
>> (ie with more references to actual patches and discussion and
>> explaination of functionality) or something completely different ?
>> I'm a bit unsure on how this webpage would differ from a typical
>> bugtracker ...
>> Maybe you could give a concrete example for a particular patch in the
>> queue so that everybody can follow ?
>
> At this point, just one line for each patch, and who is working on it:
>
> Patch, Author Committer
> HOT Pavan ?
> XML misc Peter
> etc.
>

that would be easy to do on either the wishlist or a seperate wiki page
and I would volunteer to do that if you think it is useful.

Stefan

Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote:
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote:
> >> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >>> Dave Page wrote:
> >>>>> ------- Original Message -------
> >>>>> From: Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>
> >>>>> To: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org>
> >>>>> Sent: 05/05/07, 03:00:25
> >>>>> Subject: [HACKERS] New idea for patch tracking
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As for #3, again, I don't want us to take on a burdensome patch tracking
> >>>>> process that is more effort than it is worth, and the lack of people
> >>>>> jumping to even manage a simple web page for current 8.3 patches has me
> >>>>> questioning what kind of support a burdensome tracking system would
> >>>>> receive.
> >>>> I don't recall hearing you ask for people to help with a web page.
> >>> I want create and maintain a web page that tracks where we are on each
> >>> 8.3 patch, but have had not takers.
> >> are you thinking about something like
> >> http://developer.postgresql.org/index.php/Todo:WishlistFor83 on steriods
> >> (ie with more references to actual patches and discussion and
> >> explaination of functionality) or something completely different ?
> >> I'm a bit unsure on how this webpage would differ from a typical
> >> bugtracker ...
> >> Maybe you could give a concrete example for a particular patch in the
> >> queue so that everybody can follow ?
> >
> > At this point, just one line for each patch, and who is working on it:
> >
> > Patch, Author Committer
> > HOT Pavan ?
> > XML misc Peter
> > etc.
> >
>
> that would be easy to do on either the wishlist or a seperate wiki page
> and I would volunteer to do that if you think it is useful.

OK, you have to go back to Tom's email stating where we are on each
patch, then look over the patch application and find out which ones have
been applied. Also you have to read the replies to find out who has
taken ownership of patches.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote:
>> Bruce Momjian wrote:
>>> Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote:
>>>> Bruce Momjian wrote:
>>>>> Dave Page wrote:
>>>>>>> ------- Original Message -------
>>>>>>> From: Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>
>>>>>>> To: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org>
>>>>>>> Sent: 05/05/07, 03:00:25
>>>>>>> Subject: [HACKERS] New idea for patch tracking
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for #3, again, I don't want us to take on a burdensome patch tracking
>>>>>>> process that is more effort than it is worth, and the lack of people
>>>>>>> jumping to even manage a simple web page for current 8.3 patches has me
>>>>>>> questioning what kind of support a burdensome tracking system would
>>>>>>> receive.
>>>>>> I don't recall hearing you ask for people to help with a web page.
>>>>> I want create and maintain a web page that tracks where we are on each
>>>>> 8.3 patch, but have had not takers.
>>>> are you thinking about something like
>>>> http://developer.postgresql.org/index.php/Todo:WishlistFor83 on steriods
>>>> (ie with more references to actual patches and discussion and
>>>> explaination of functionality) or something completely different ?
>>>> I'm a bit unsure on how this webpage would differ from a typical
>>>> bugtracker ...
>>>> Maybe you could give a concrete example for a particular patch in the
>>>> queue so that everybody can follow ?
>>> At this point, just one line for each patch, and who is working on it:
>>>
>>> Patch, Author Committer
>>> HOT Pavan ?
>>> XML misc Peter
>>> etc.
>>>
>> that would be easy to do on either the wishlist or a seperate wiki page
>> and I would volunteer to do that if you think it is useful.
>
> OK, you have to go back to Tom's email stating where we are on each
> patch, then look over the patch application and find out which ones have
> been applied. Also you have to read the replies to find out who has
> taken ownership of patches.

ok I did a rough sketch of how I interpreted your proposal on
http://developer.postgresql.org/index.php/Todo:PatchStatus.
This table is by far not complete yet(more of a PoC) but I wanted to get
some feedback if I'm on the right track before I put more time into this.

Stefan