Re: Commit fest?

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Hello,

I was just curious what the status of the Commit Fest was? As I recall
it started on the 1st but I haven't seen much. Is something holding us
up? Is there something I(we/community/cmd) can do to help?

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

- --
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
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"Joshua D. Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com> writes:
> I was just curious what the status of the Commit Fest was?

It's moving, but slowly. Bruce and I have been knocking items off
the queue, but we could use some help with reviewing.

http://momjian.us/cgi-bin/pgpatches

Please leave a comment if you're starting to work on anything
large, so that people don't duplicate effort.

regards, tom lane

"Tom Lane" <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us> writes:

> "Joshua D. Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com> writes:
>> I was just curious what the status of the Commit Fest was?
>
> It's moving, but slowly. Bruce and I have been knocking items off
> the queue, but we could use some help with reviewing.

Could you point me at a patch you think would make a good candidate? Or should
I just pick a random one?

--
Gregory Stark
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com
Ask me about EnterpriseDB's PostGIS support!

Gregory Stark <stark(at)enterprisedb(dot)com> writes:
>> It's moving, but slowly. Bruce and I have been knocking items off
>> the queue, but we could use some help with reviewing.

> Could you point me at a patch you think would make a good candidate? Or should
> I just pick a random one?

Pick things you feel interested in and competent to review.

regards, tom lane

Tom Lane wrote:
> "Joshua D. Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com> writes:
>
>> I was just curious what the status of the Commit Fest was?
>>
>
> It's moving, but slowly. Bruce and I have been knocking items off
> the queue, but we could use some help with reviewing.
>
> http://momjian.us/cgi-bin/pgpatches
>
> Please leave a comment if you're starting to work on anything
> large, so that people don't duplicate effort.
>
>
>

I can't say I find this an advance - paging through 14 pages of subject
headers with the odd comment isn't very productive. A nice wiki table
with links to the discussions would be much nicer, IMNSHO.

cheers

andrew

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On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:58:49 -0400
Andrew Dunstan <andrew(at)dunslane(dot)net> wrote:

> I can't say I find this an advance - paging through 14 pages of
> subject headers with the odd comment isn't very productive. A nice
> wiki table with links to the discussions would be much nicer, IMNSHO.

I am actually a bit confused on it. I could have sworn (in my feverish
state) that when I looked early in the week at the patches page that it
had some kind of comment interface that was obvious.

Not it just looks like the same old patches threads :(

What am I missing?

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

- --
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins

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Andrew Dunstan <andrew(at)dunslane(dot)net> writes:
> Tom Lane wrote:
>> http://momjian.us/cgi-bin/pgpatches

> I can't say I find this an advance - paging through 14 pages of subject
> headers with the odd comment isn't very productive. A nice wiki table
> with links to the discussions would be much nicer, IMNSHO.

Well, it's an advance over what we had before, which was that the queue
was completely read-only for everyone except Bruce. I agree that
migrating it to a wiki page would be nicer in the long run. But unless
someone wants to step up and make that happen within a very short
interval, trying to do it in the middle of the fest is just going to be
a distraction.

regards, tom lane

"Joshua D. Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com> writes:
> Not it just looks like the same old patches threads :(

The comment stuff seems to need Javascript :-(

regards, tom lane

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On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:09:26 -0400
Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us> wrote:

> "Joshua D. Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com> writes:
> > Not it just looks like the same old patches threads :(
>
> The comment stuff seems to need Javascript :-(
>
> regards, tom lane
>

O.k. I have got to be doing something wrong. I always leave javascript
on entirely. I am on this page:

http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/msg00155.html

This patch is actually one I think I could review but I see nothing
that allows a comment or login to allow comment or anything. :(

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

- --
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins

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"Joshua D. Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com> writes:
> O.k. I have got to be doing something wrong. I always leave javascript
> on entirely. I am on this page:

> http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/msg00155.html

You can put comments on the top-level index pages --- actually they're
at the level of threads, not of individual messages. I'm not that
thrilled with that aspect of it myself, but it's still better than
nothing.

regards, tom lane

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008, Andrew Dunstan wrote:

> I can't say I find this an advance - paging through 14 pages of subject
> headers with the odd comment isn't very productive.

Bruce had said it was going to take him time to organize things better,
and instead of waiting for that to complete he was asked to just dump the
whole archive in there so other people could help. I didn't find the
formatting a problem. Many of the patches I had something to say about
were already sitting in my personal archived mailbox as well in the same
format, so I just switched to my mail reader to follow the threads better
in those cases.

> A nice wiki table with links to the discussions would be much nicer,
> IMNSHO.

Well then hurry up and take care of building that for everybody. One of
my better known catch phrases among my friends is "don't complain about
anything you're not willing to fix yourself".

I recall a moment from late in the 8.3 cycle that seems familiar here. I
went to the trouble of pushing some of the CVS commit information onto the
developer's wiki so that multiple people could help work through sorting
through it all as part of the release note building proces. But nobody
did, and Tom ended up doing the whole thing himself instead.

The lesson I walked away with is that if the person doing most of the work
isn't interested in your tool, what you and other people would like isn't
particularly relevant. While it's far from perfect, the comment thing on
these pages is a step forward, and I've spent a few hours sorting through
the parts of this I understand this week to try and help out with that.

Until someone other than Bruce and Tom is going to volunteer to do the
time consuming parts of the job, whether it would be nice to have this
information on a wiki or not doesn't matter too much. Usefully organized
content doesn't magically create itself, it takes work. I think once the
backlog is whittled down to a managable size moving to the wiki format
used to track 8.3 progress will make sense. Right now many of these
threads are not turning into patches to review, and the easiest way to
figure out which are which is to read through the discussion
thread--something a wiki wouldn't make any easier than the view Bruce is
already providing.

--
* Greg Smith gsmith(at)gregsmith(dot)com http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/msg00155.html
> This patch is actually one I think I could review but I see nothing
> that allows a comment or login to allow comment or anything. :(

To be specific, click on the "Thread Index" button at the top of that page
and you'll be taken to the view you leave comments on.

My biggest peeve with the software is that when I get e-mailed that
someone has replied to a comment I made, the URLs in the e-mail haven't
ever worked. I have to go sort through the messages manually to figure
out what the reply was referring to.

--
* Greg Smith gsmith(at)gregsmith(dot)com http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD

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On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:28:30 -0400 (EDT)
Greg Smith <gsmith(at)gregsmith(dot)com> wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Mar 2008, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
> > http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/msg00155.html
> > This patch is actually one I think I could review but I see nothing
> > that allows a comment or login to allow comment or anything. :(
>
> To be specific, click on the "Thread Index" button at the top of that
> page and you'll be taken to the view you leave comments on.

Thanks for that but I have tried multiple patches and I get nothing.
This is what I did:

browser:
http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/msg00155.html
click "Thread Index":
http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/thrd2.html#00162

Which is literally, a thread index :). No comments allowed.

I also tried:

http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/msg00181.html
Then thread index:
http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/thrd2.html#00181

Which just takes me back to the thread index.

I am fairly certain I am just doing something dumb.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake
- --
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins

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Greg Smith <gsmith(at)gregsmith(dot)com> writes:
> Usefully organized
> content doesn't magically create itself, it takes work.

What he said.

It's worth pointing out here that a whole lot of what is in Bruce's
queue isn't patches or anything close to that, but discussions that he
dropped into the queue until they could get summarized as TODO items.
We've talked about moving the TODO list to the wiki as well. Something
that would perhaps be useful to do in parallel with the patch-reviewing
is to make that happen and start pushing the discussion threads out of
the patch queue and onto the wiki page. Right now it's hard to even
find the reviewable patches among the other stuff.

I do have a bee in my bonnet about the TODO-to-be threads that revolve
around mapping ideas (free space map, dead space map, known frozen
pages, etc etc). I would like us to consider *all* those ideas as
a group and try to come out with a coherent roadmap for where we are
going to go with them. Perhaps that isn't an appropriate commit-fest
activity, but it needs to happen sometime soon, before anyone starts
spending serious work on these areas.

There may be some other threads as well in which we need to review
design ideas, rather than complete patches, to help someone head in
the right direction.

regards, tom lane

Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> Thanks for that but I have tried multiple patches and I get nothing.
> This is what I did:
>
> browser:
> http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/msg00155.html
> click "Thread Index":
> http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/thrd2.html#00162

Actually, "thread index" takes you to
http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/thrd2.html#00155
(which is kinda obvious -- the 155 is a number put there by mhonarc) and
you can certainly comment on it. There's a comment by Bruce saying "Ah,
the utility command patch again."

My guess is that you have the NoScript extension or something like that.

--
Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.

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On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 00:22:09 -0300
Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com> wrote:

> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
> > Thanks for that but I have tried multiple patches and I get nothing.
> > This is what I did:
> >
> > browser:
> > http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/msg00155.html
> > click "Thread Index":
> > http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/thrd2.html#00162
>
> Actually, "thread index" takes you to
> http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/thrd2.html#00155
> (which is kinda obvious -- the 155 is a number put there by mhonarc)
> and you can certainly comment on it. There's a comment by Bruce
> saying "Ah, the utility command patch again."
>
> My guess is that you have the NoScript extension or something like
> that.

Nope :). I don't run firefox extensions. That was actually probably a
mispaste due to the wonders of linux clipboard. I will try again.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

- --
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins

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Greg Smith wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Mar 2008, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
> > http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/msg00155.html
> > This patch is actually one I think I could review but I see nothing
> > that allows a comment or login to allow comment or anything. :(
>
> To be specific, click on the "Thread Index" button at the top of that page
> and you'll be taken to the view you leave comments on.
>
> My biggest peeve with the software is that when I get e-mailed that
> someone has replied to a comment I made, the URLs in the e-mail haven't
> ever worked. I have to go sort through the messages manually to figure
> out what the reply was referring to.

Yea, that is a big problem because the URLs are dynamic. I have the
comments based on message id but there is no way to hook that to a URL.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Yep, Greg Smith hit the nail on the head. There were lots of complaints
in the past that "we don't know how to help" so now almost every thread
has a comment, and people can add their own comments, but still it is
mostly Tom and me making comments and applying patches and adding TODO
items.

"Oh, can I have a wiki that has exactly what I want to know and can read
my mind and I don't have to type anything" is about where my thinking is
on this issue right now. (no smiley folks)

Anyway, expect the commit fest to go on until probably early April based
on the progress we are making.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greg Smith wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Mar 2008, Andrew Dunstan wrote:
>
> > I can't say I find this an advance - paging through 14 pages of subject
> > headers with the odd comment isn't very productive.
>
> Bruce had said it was going to take him time to organize things better,
> and instead of waiting for that to complete he was asked to just dump the
> whole archive in there so other people could help. I didn't find the
> formatting a problem. Many of the patches I had something to say about
> were already sitting in my personal archived mailbox as well in the same
> format, so I just switched to my mail reader to follow the threads better
> in those cases.
>
> > A nice wiki table with links to the discussions would be much nicer,
> > IMNSHO.
>
> Well then hurry up and take care of building that for everybody. One of
> my better known catch phrases among my friends is "don't complain about
> anything you're not willing to fix yourself".
>
> I recall a moment from late in the 8.3 cycle that seems familiar here. I
> went to the trouble of pushing some of the CVS commit information onto the
> developer's wiki so that multiple people could help work through sorting
> through it all as part of the release note building proces. But nobody
> did, and Tom ended up doing the whole thing himself instead.
>
> The lesson I walked away with is that if the person doing most of the work
> isn't interested in your tool, what you and other people would like isn't
> particularly relevant. While it's far from perfect, the comment thing on
> these pages is a step forward, and I've spent a few hours sorting through
> the parts of this I understand this week to try and help out with that.
>
> Until someone other than Bruce and Tom is going to volunteer to do the
> time consuming parts of the job, whether it would be nice to have this
> information on a wiki or not doesn't matter too much. Usefully organized
> content doesn't magically create itself, it takes work. I think once the
> backlog is whittled down to a managable size moving to the wiki format
> used to track 8.3 progress will make sense. Right now many of these
> threads are not turning into patches to review, and the easiest way to
> figure out which are which is to read through the discussion
> thread--something a wiki wouldn't make any easier than the view Bruce is
> already providing.
>
> --
> * Greg Smith gsmith(at)gregsmith(dot)com http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Tom Lane wrote:
> Greg Smith <gsmith(at)gregsmith(dot)com> writes:
> > Usefully organized
> > content doesn't magically create itself, it takes work.
>
> What he said.
>
> It's worth pointing out here that a whole lot of what is in Bruce's
> queue isn't patches or anything close to that, but discussions that he
> dropped into the queue until they could get summarized as TODO items.
> We've talked about moving the TODO list to the wiki as well. Something
> that would perhaps be useful to do in parallel with the patch-reviewing
> is to make that happen and start pushing the discussion threads out of
> the patch queue and onto the wiki page. Right now it's hard to even
> find the reviewable patches among the other stuff.

Yep, lots of TODOs but, again, we have to deal with these sometimes so
this is a good time to do it.

> I do have a bee in my bonnet about the TODO-to-be threads that revolve
> around mapping ideas (free space map, dead space map, known frozen
> pages, etc etc). I would like us to consider *all* those ideas as
> a group and try to come out with a coherent roadmap for where we are
> going to go with them. Perhaps that isn't an appropriate commit-fest
> activity, but it needs to happen sometime soon, before anyone starts
> spending serious work on these areas.

Yep, we need a plan on that thing. I can pull them out into a separate
URL when we are ready, and any comments will appear at the new URL. I
wish I could move things around myself but the list is dynamic so it
isn't possible.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 08:42:00PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > My guess is that you have the NoScript extension or something like
> > that.
>
> Nope :). I don't run firefox extensions. That was actually probably a
> mispaste due to the wonders of linux clipboard. I will try again.

I wonder if you've fixed it but looking at the source it references an
external JS file at http://js-kit.com/comments.js, maybe some security
thing? It appears to work by fetch automatically generated JS files
from the server to execute.

Have a nice day,
--
Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog(at)svana(dot)org> http://svana.org/kleptog/
> Please line up in a tree and maintain the heap invariant while
> boarding. Thank you for flying nlogn airlines.

Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 00:22:09 -0300
> Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com> wrote:
>
> > Actually, "thread index" takes you to
> > http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/thrd2.html#00155
> > (which is kinda obvious -- the 155 is a number put there by mhonarc)
> > and you can certainly comment on it. There's a comment by Bruce
> > saying "Ah, the utility command patch again."
>
> Nope :). I don't run firefox extensions. That was actually probably a
> mispaste due to the wonders of linux clipboard. I will try again.

Huh, what would you need the clipboard for? Just middle-click the link
and it'll open on a new tab.

--
Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Tom Lane wrote:

> > I do have a bee in my bonnet about the TODO-to-be threads that revolve
> > around mapping ideas (free space map, dead space map, known frozen
> > pages, etc etc). I would like us to consider *all* those ideas as
> > a group and try to come out with a coherent roadmap for where we are
> > going to go with them. Perhaps that isn't an appropriate commit-fest
> > activity, but it needs to happen sometime soon, before anyone starts
> > spending serious work on these areas.
>
> Yep, we need a plan on that thing. I can pull them out into a separate
> URL when we are ready, and any comments will appear at the new URL. I
> wish I could move things around myself but the list is dynamic so it
> isn't possible.

You used to keep a "TODO.detail" queue for these kind of things. I
think that worked a lot better, because each item had its discussions
grouped in a single place, where you could glance at it without having
to wade through lots of unrelated stuff.

--
Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.

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On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 14:30:07 -0300
Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com> wrote:

> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 00:22:09 -0300
> > Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com> wrote:
> >
> > > Actually, "thread index" takes you to
> > > http://momjian.us/mhonarc/patches/thrd2.html#00155
> > > (which is kinda obvious -- the 155 is a number put there by
> > > mhonarc) and you can certainly comment on it. There's a comment
> > > by Bruce saying "Ah, the utility command patch again."
> >
> > Nope :). I don't run firefox extensions. That was actually probably
> > a mispaste due to the wonders of linux clipboard. I will try again.
>
> Huh, what would you need the clipboard for? Just middle-click the
> link and it'll open on a new tab.

I needed the clipboard to paste the link into this email thread... :P

Joshua D. Drake

- --
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins

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Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > Tom Lane wrote:
>
> > > I do have a bee in my bonnet about the TODO-to-be threads that revolve
> > > around mapping ideas (free space map, dead space map, known frozen
> > > pages, etc etc). I would like us to consider *all* those ideas as
> > > a group and try to come out with a coherent roadmap for where we are
> > > going to go with them. Perhaps that isn't an appropriate commit-fest
> > > activity, but it needs to happen sometime soon, before anyone starts
> > > spending serious work on these areas.
> >
> > Yep, we need a plan on that thing. I can pull them out into a separate
> > URL when we are ready, and any comments will appear at the new URL. I
> > wish I could move things around myself but the list is dynamic so it
> > isn't possible.
>
> You used to keep a "TODO.detail" queue for these kind of things. I
> think that worked a lot better, because each item had its discussions
> grouped in a single place, where you could glance at it without having
> to wade through lots of unrelated stuff.

Yes, that is a good idea but it usually happens when I am ready to add
something to the TODO list. The problem right now is I have no idea
_what_ to add to the TODO list for this item.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

All,

First, the new comment interface doesn't work on Konqueror/Safari, which is
the problem I think many people are having. Use firefox instead.

Second, I plan to do a wiki-level summary of pending patches for the 2nd
commit fest. For the first one, raw data wasn't available before the
official start of the Fest, and now things are changing too fast for me to
keep up.

--
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

Josh Berkus <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com> writes:
> First, the new comment interface doesn't work on Konqueror/Safari, which is
> the problem I think many people are having. Use firefox instead.

Can't say about Konqueror, but the comments work fine in Safari (as
long as you don't turn off Javascript).

regards, tom lane

Tom Lane wrote:
> Josh Berkus <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com> writes:
> > First, the new comment interface doesn't work on Konqueror/Safari, which is
> > the problem I think many people are having. Use firefox instead.
>
> Can't say about Konqueror, but the comments work fine in Safari (as
> long as you don't turn off Javascript).

I wonder if part of the problem is that the javascript file is not on
momjian.us but on another server --- I can imagine some browsers
thinking that is a security issue.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +