CertFirst training event listings

There was some discussion at the end of June about inappropriate
training postings, particularly from CertFirst:

http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2009-06/msg00241.php

and the www email thread agreed that training approval needs to be more
strict about style/advertising issues:

http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2009-06/msg00251.php

However, I see some training events that do not follow that style
policy:

http://www.postgresql.org/about/eventarchive

For example:

PostgreSQL DBA 8 Certification Hands-on Training (CPSD 8)
Date: 2009-07-27 - 2009-07-30
Location: St. Louis, MO, United States
Posted by info(at)Certfirst(dot)com
To Master IT, Learn IT from the Masters! REGISTER TODAY & GET A FREE
iPOD CLASSIC! Call for more details. **ON-SITE GROUP TRAINING SPECIAL
LIMITED TIME OFFER, 50% off, LOWEST PRICE AND 100% SATISFACTION &
CERTIFICATION GUARANTEE, Call for more details** more...

Shouldn't those be removed? I am not singling out CertFirst, but theirs
seem to be the only non-qualified listings.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Bruce,

> Shouldn't those be removed? I am not singling out CertFirst, but theirs
> seem to be the only non-qualified listings.

We stopped approving new listings, but we didn't remove the old ones.

I still need to e-mail CertFirst.

--
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
www.pgexperts.com

Josh Berkus wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> > Shouldn't those be removed? I am not singling out CertFirst, but theirs
> > seem to be the only non-qualified listings.
>
> We stopped approving new listings, but we didn't remove the old ones.
>
> I still need to e-mail CertFirst.

I think they need to be removed, no? Or is it too drastic? Perhaps
because they were approved based on an old policy, so they are kind of
grand-fathered in.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

All,

I need to compose a formal letter to CertFirst. Should I offer them the
chance to post again if they adhere to strict posting guildlines, or
have they crossed the line one to many times and are simply banned? The
requirements I was thinking of are:

============

a) all CertFirst training events are posted from *one* community account

b) content of event announcements is purely informational ("Training on
PostgreSQL administration July 28-30")

c) any references to "certification" make it clear that it's your own
certification

d) no more than two training event listings per month.

These standards are stricter than what we apply to other vendors because
of the complaints received from multiple community members about
CertFirst's advertisements. If even a single CertFirst announcement in
the future violates these requirements, you will be banned from posting
on www.postgresql.org permanently.

--
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
www.pgexperts.com

Have we ever talked to CertFirst before or warned them? If so, ban
them; if not, the list below is fine.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Josh Berkus wrote:
> All,
>
> I need to compose a formal letter to CertFirst. Should I offer them the
> chance to post again if they adhere to strict posting guildlines, or
> have they crossed the line one to many times and are simply banned? The
> requirements I was thinking of are:
>
> ============
>
> a) all CertFirst training events are posted from *one* community account
>
> b) content of event announcements is purely informational ("Training on
> PostgreSQL administration July 28-30")
>
> c) any references to "certification" make it clear that it's your own
> certification
>
> d) no more than two training event listings per month.
>
> These standards are stricter than what we apply to other vendors because
> of the complaints received from multiple community members about
> CertFirst's advertisements. If even a single CertFirst announcement in
> the future violates these requirements, you will be banned from posting
> on www.postgresql.org permanently.
>
> --
> Josh Berkus
> PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
> www.pgexperts.com

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

On 7/11/09 1:40 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Have we ever talked to CertFirst before or warned them? If so, ban
> them; if not, the list below is fine.

I'm not sure what Dave said to them last time, which is why I don't want
to just cut them off.

--
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
www.pgexperts.com

Josh Berkus wrote:
> On 7/11/09 1:40 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > Have we ever talked to CertFirst before or warned them? If so, ban
> > them; if not, the list below is fine.
>
> I'm not sure what Dave said to them last time, which is why I don't want
> to just cut them off.

Ah, good point.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> writes:
> Josh Berkus wrote:
>> On 7/11/09 1:40 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>>> Have we ever talked to CertFirst before or warned them? If so, ban
>>> them; if not, the list below is fine.
>>
>> I'm not sure what Dave said to them last time, which is why I don't want
>> to just cut them off.

> Ah, good point.

Dave's already off sailing, isn't he? So if you are going to wait for
his input, nothing is going to happen for two weeks (at least).

regards, tom lane

On 7/12/09, Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us> wrote:
> Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> writes:
>> Josh Berkus wrote:
>>> On 7/11/09 1:40 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>>>> Have we ever talked to CertFirst before or warned them? If so, ban
>>>> them; if not, the list below is fine.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what Dave said to them last time, which is why I don't want
>>> to just cut them off.
>
>> Ah, good point.
>
> Dave's already off sailing, isn't he? So if you are going to wait for
> his input, nothing is going to happen for two weeks (at least).
>

Currently drinking coffee in Heathrow T5...

I haven't spoken to them yet, and don't know what I said previously as
it was a long time back. I don't think it was particularly harsh tho.

--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com

> I haven't spoken to them yet, and don't know what I said previously as
> it was a long time back. I don't think it was particularly harsh tho.

sounds like I give them a chance to mend their ways this time.

--
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
www.pgexperts.com

Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Have we ever talked to CertFirst before or warned them? If so, ban
> them; if not, the list below is fine.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Josh Berkus wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> I need to compose a formal letter to CertFirst. Should I offer them the
>> chance to post again if they adhere to strict posting guildlines, or
>> have they crossed the line one to many times and are simply banned? The
>> requirements I was thinking of are:
>>
>> ============
>>
>> a) all CertFirst training events are posted from *one* community account
>>
>> b) content of event announcements is purely informational ("Training on
>> PostgreSQL administration July 28-30")
>>
>> c) any references to "certification" make it clear that it's your own
>> certification
>>
>> d) no more than two training event listings per month.
>>
>> These standards are stricter than what we apply to other vendors because
>> of the complaints received from multiple community members about
>> CertFirst's advertisements. If even a single CertFirst announcement in
>> the future violates these requirements, you will be banned from posting
>> on www.postgresql.org permanently.
>>
So they have 4 listings posted in the month of October, all of which
offer free items unrelated to training (which seem to be against
policy), and in this case they've posted them under a separate corporate
now - SaiFirst (to avoid detection?), but using the same domain for
contact information.

--
Chander Ganesan
Open Technology Group, Inc.
One Copley Parkway, Suite 210
Morrisville, NC 27560
919-463-0999/877-258-8987
http://www.otg-nc.com