Re: RFC: Grants

Hello,

As promised on the update here is what is currently under consideration
for grants. Please let us know your thoughts:

Grant types:
* There will be two types of grants:
* General grants
General grants are those that we don't plan for. It may be for a
someone to give a talk at a show or to write a HOWTO.

* Specialized grants
Specialized grants are grants that are predetermined by the Grant
committee. An example would be, "1500.00 to add X feature to
PHP-PDO".

Eligibility:

* Grants will available to members of PgUS of Professional or Student
status. (This is already determined per our membership benefits)

Selection:

* We will have a grant committee that will have a specific budget for
grants.

How to apply:

In order to apply an eligible member will have to fill out a grant
application (likely through the postgresql.us website). The application
will require the minimum information:

Personal Information (Name, address etc..)
Grant type you are requesting
* A Specialized grant
If so, which
* A General grant

If a General grant:

What are you seeking a grant for?
* Develop a TODO item?
* Write a HOWTO?
* Air fare to speak at X conference?

How much money are you looking for?

How will the money be used?

What is benefit to PostgreSQL should the grant be awarded?

What do you hope to learn or teach should the grant be awarded?

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

--
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

Josh,

> * Grants will available to members of PgUS of Professional or Student
> status. (This is already determined per our membership benefits)

Hmmm. What if the best person to complete a project isn't a member? If
it's our goal to get a feature written, for example, restricting grantees
to membership seems like a bad idea.

Also, have you talked to the attorney about having membership be a
prerequisite for grants? There may be 501(c)3 issues with that.

Application template looks fine.

--
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL
San Francisco

On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:06:57 -0700
Josh Berkus <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com> wrote:

> Josh,
>
> > * Grants will available to members of PgUS of Professional or
> > Student status. (This is already determined per our membership
> > benefits)
>
> Hmmm. What if the best person to complete a project isn't a member?

Currently, you have to be a member to be eligible for a grant. That is
one thing that is distinctly different than say SPI.

> If it's our goal to get a feature written, for example, restricting
> grantees to membership seems like a bad idea.

Well that isn't necessarily the goal. For example I (speaking
personally) would rather have a student from Kansas U develop a feature
for pg_standby than Simon. Now Simon is clearly more qualified and a better
candidate from the perspective of getting the feature done.

However he is not the best candidate from a getting a new person
involved in PostgreSQL, expanding United States based contributions to
the code base, and educating a new person on the innards of pg_standby.
All of which, in my opinion is more important.

>
> Also, have you talked to the attorney about having membership be a
> prerequisite for grants? There may be 501(c)3 issues with that.

That is a good point, bouncing to Greg. I will report back.

>
> Application template looks fine.
>

Cool.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

--
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

Josh,

> However he is not the best candidate from a getting a new person
> involved in PostgreSQL, expanding United States based contributions to
> the code base, and educating a new person on the innards of pg_standby.
> All of which, in my opinion is more important.

Well, whatever the definition of "best" is, the question still stands.

--
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL
San Francisco

On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:44:50 -0700
Josh Berkus <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com> wrote:

> Josh,
>
> > However he is not the best candidate from a getting a new person
> > involved in PostgreSQL, expanding United States based contributions
> > to the code base, and educating a new person on the innards of
> > pg_standby. All of which, in my opinion is more important.
>
> Well, whatever the definition of "best" is, the question still
> stands.

Well I bounced it to the attorney just in case but I am pretty sure it
is not an issue. A 501c3 is subject to its members (similar to a how a
public for profit is subject to its share holders). Anyway that point
is moot until we get confirmation from the DWT which I expect tomorrow.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

--
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

On Monday 04 August 2008 18:00, Joshua Drake wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:44:50 -0700
>
> Josh Berkus <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com> wrote:
> > Josh,
> >
> > > However he is not the best candidate from a getting a new person
> > > involved in PostgreSQL, expanding United States based contributions
> > > to the code base, and educating a new person on the innards of
> > > pg_standby. All of which, in my opinion is more important.
> >
> > Well, whatever the definition of "best" is, the question still
> > stands.
>
> Well I bounced it to the attorney just in case but I am pretty sure it
> is not an issue. A 501c3 is subject to its members (similar to a how a
> public for profit is subject to its share holders). Anyway that point
> is moot until we get confirmation from the DWT which I expect tomorrow.

I was just thinking that members voting on something which is to the
finanicial benefit of one of the members is probably not kosher.

--
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL
San Francisco

On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 18:07:20 -0700
Josh Berkus <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com> wrote:

> > Well I bounced it to the attorney just in case but I am pretty sure
> > it is not an issue. A 501c3 is subject to its members (similar to a
> > how a public for profit is subject to its share holders). Anyway
> > that point is moot until we get confirmation from the DWT which I
> > expect tomorrow.
>
> I was just thinking that members voting on something which is to the
> finanicial benefit of one of the members is probably not kosher.

If a committee member was up for the grant, I would expect that
the committee member would abstain from the vote. If it is not a
committee member that is up for the grant, I don't see how it is an
issue. Although we don't have that defined, so that is probably
something we should do.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

>

--
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

On Mon, Aug 04, 2008 at 05:32:03PM -0700, Joshua Drake wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:06:57 -0700
> Josh Berkus <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com> wrote:
> > If it's our goal to get a feature written, for example, restricting
> > grantees to membership seems like a bad idea.
>
> Well that isn't necessarily the goal. For example I (speaking
> personally) would rather have a student from Kansas U develop a feature
> for pg_standby than Simon. Now Simon is clearly more qualified and a better
> candidate from the perspective of getting the feature done.
>
> However he is not the best candidate from a getting a new person
> involved in PostgreSQL, expanding United States based contributions to
> the code base, and educating a new person on the innards of pg_standby.
> All of which, in my opinion is more important.

So if the new person needed/wanted help from Simon, and Simon decided he
had to charge for that help, would it be acceptable to do that? Can
"consultation expenses" be part of the grant proposal?

(I'm assuming that Simon couldn't just join since he doesn't live in the
US...)
--
Decibel!, aka Jim C. Nasby, Database Architect decibel(at)decibel(dot)org
Give your computer some brain candy! www.distributed.net Team #1828

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Decibel! <decibel(at)decibel(dot)org> wrote:
>
> (I'm assuming that Simon couldn't just join since he doesn't live in the
> US...)

Actually, I don't believe there's a residency requirement to PgUS
membership. (I could be remembering that incorrectly, though.)

---Michael Brewer
mbrewer(at)gmail(dot)com

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:57:33 -0400
"Michael Alan Brewer" <mbrewer(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Decibel! <decibel(at)decibel(dot)org> wrote:
> >
> > (I'm assuming that Simon couldn't just join since he doesn't live
> > in the US...)
>
> Actually, I don't believe there's a residency requirement to PgUS
> membership. (I could be remembering that incorrectly, though.)

That is correct. Anyone can join.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

>
> ---Michael Brewer
> mbrewer(at)gmail(dot)com
>

--
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 08:46:31 -0500
Decibel! <decibel(at)decibel(dot)org> wrote:

> So if the new person needed/wanted help from Simon, and Simon decided
> he had to charge for that help, would it be acceptable to do that? Can
> "consultation expenses" be part of the grant proposal?

In my mind that would be an agreement between the grant receiver and
Simon. PgUS is out of it at that point. Our concern is the delivery of
the end product based on the application of the grant. Whether that
product be software or otherwise (a talk).

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

--
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:06:57 -0700
Josh Berkus <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com> wrote:

> Josh,
>
> > * Grants will available to members of PgUS of Professional or
> > Student status. (This is already determined per our membership
> > benefits)

> Also, have you talked to the attorney about having membership be a
> prerequisite for grants? There may be 501(c)3 issues with that.

I have had a phone call with our general counsel and he does not see a
problem with limiting grants to eligible members.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

--
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

Josh,

> I have had a phone call with our general counsel and he does not see
> a
> problem with limiting grants to eligible members.

great, so that's out of the way.

I'm noting, though, that this scheme -- my members, for members --
would mean that we would still need SPI for "general fundraising". For
example, some corporate donors would not be comfortable donating to an
organization where only paid members were eligible for grants. Was
that your plan ... to continue to use both, actively?

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL
San Francisco 415-752-2500

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:58:38 -0700
"Josh Berkus" <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com> wrote:

> Josh,
>
> > I have had a phone call with our general counsel and he does not see
> > a
> > problem with limiting grants to eligible members.
>
> great, so that's out of the way.
>
> I'm noting, though, that this scheme -- my members, for members --
> would mean that we would still need SPI for "general fundraising".
> For example, some corporate donors would not be comfortable donating
> to an organization where only paid members were eligible for grants.

That may be true but on the flip side I could see some corporate donors
not being comfortable with the fact that their money is being used to
sponsor events that do nothing for their marketable presence.

An excellent example would be CMD. It provides CMD absolutely zero
capital return to sponsor PgCon.EU. It certainly makes us feel good
that we are helping our brothers across the pond, but from a business
perspective it is a bad investment. That is likely not true for EDB or
2ndQuandrant, both of who have more presence in Europe than CMD does.

With EDB who has Europe and U.S. based offices, I would assume they
would sponsor PgEU and PgUS for their respective regions. Where,
2ndQuandrant would only sponsor PgEU.

> Was that your plan ... to continue to use both, actively?

It isn't up to me to determine if SPI is still a legitimate
source for fund raising. There are some advantages to SPI that our other
non profits don't have. That is a discussion for PGFG and Core I would
suspect.

I think a more important distinction between the SPI and PgUS is that
PostgreSQL.us is all about PostgreSQL in the U.S. E.g; it is likely we
wouldn't send money to PgEU for their upcoming conference. Where SPI
will, because SPI is all about funding "PostgreSQL" efforts as a whole.

Also, grants are only one way for money being spent to be allocated.
E.g; A specific way to request money to perform "something" that
provides a educational benefit to the public without charge that is
based on PostgreSQL. One of the strategic ideas behind this is to help
fund free curriculum, howtos and other documentation that becomes
available. Try and find a decent HOWTO on PITR, or Slony, pl/proxy or a
best practices document on using RoR and PostgreSQL.

Technically speaking, Travel would not need a grant. I was just using
that as an example. What might need a grant in comparison would be the
development of the talk (which would actually be a HOWTO that is
scaled down to a talk) and secondarily through the grant they are able
to pay for the travel. Also, LAPUG would not need a grant to request
money for printing costs of flyers. That just falls under cost of doing
business for PostgreSQL in the U.S. The same is true for the plans to
offer PUG leaders a phone number. It is just cost of delivering the
service.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

>
>
> Josh Berkus
> PostgreSQL
> San Francisco 415-752-2500
>

--
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

Josh,

OK. I can see where you're going with this. The only way to see if
it's the right way to go is to try -- we can always revise it later if
there are problems. +1 in general.

--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL
San Francisco 415-752-2500

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:04:29 -0700
"Josh Berkus" <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com> wrote:

> Josh,
>
> OK. I can see where you're going with this. The only way to see if
> it's the right way to go is to try -- we can always revise it later if
> there are problems. +1 in general.

:)

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

>
> --Josh
>
>
> Josh Berkus
> PostgreSQL
> San Francisco 415-752-2500
>

--
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

Josh Berkus wrote:
> Josh,
>
> OK. I can see where you're going with this. The only way to see if
> it's the right way to go is to try -- we can always revise it later if
> there are problems. +1 in general.

+1

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +