Re: Banners on postgresql.org not running on pgsql?

Hi,

I just noticed that phpAdsNew is used to serve banners on
postgresql.org: as its current project admin I'm really proud of this
choice, but I was wondering why its pgsql port wasn't used instead :)

Of course I'd be glad to offer my help for tuning/setting up both
phpAdsNew and phpPgAds if needed.

Best regards
--
Matteo Beccati
http://phpadsnew.com
http://phppgads.com

Matteo,

> Of course I'd be glad to offer my help for tuning/setting up both
> phpAdsNew and phpPgAds if needed.

I'm sure we're using phppgads. That server doesn't have a MySQL
instance. Plus we were running an "ad" for your project for a while. Marc?

--Josh

On Tue, 9 May 2006, Josh Berkus wrote:

> Matteo,
>
>> Of course I'd be glad to offer my help for tuning/setting up both phpAdsNew
>> and phpPgAds if needed.
>
> I'm sure we're using phppgads. That server doesn't have a MySQL instance.
> Plus we were running an "ad" for your project for a while. Marc?

As embarressing it is to say, we've been using the MySQL version of
phpAdsNew for almost a year now ... its the only one we could find that
could actually keep up with the # of hits that the web sites are getting
:( Even with pg_autovacuum running ...

Obviously, it wasn't something I particularly wanted to *advertise* :(

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

Marc,

> As embarressing it is to say, we've been using the MySQL version of
> phpAdsNew for almost a year now ... its the only one we could find that
> could actually keep up with the # of hits that the web sites are getting

Um, you just sent that to the list.

I think that's now a priority to fix immediately. I wish you'd brought that
up on pgsql-WWW, I don't think any of us would have found it acceptable to
switch.

--
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco

Hi,

>> As embarressing it is to say, we've been using the MySQL version of
>> phpAdsNew for almost a year now ... its the only one we could find that
>> could actually keep up with the # of hits that the web sites are getting
>
> Um, you just sent that to the list.
>
> I think that's now a priority to fix immediately. I wish you'd brought that
> up on pgsql-WWW, I don't think any of us would have found it acceptable to
> switch.

I didn't surely want to cause all this, but I'm quite sure it was a
phpPgAds fault: I've tried to optimize some things but it could still
suffer a performance decrease from the fact that it was designed to run
on mysql.

Anyway with a little tuning things can get indeed better and that's true
for both phpPgAds and phpAdsNew.

Best regards
--
Matteo Beccati
http://phpadsnew.com
http://phppgads.com

On Tue, 9 May 2006, Josh Berkus wrote:

> Marc,
>
>> As embarressing it is to say, we've been using the MySQL version of
>> phpAdsNew for almost a year now ... its the only one we could find that
>> could actually keep up with the # of hits that the web sites are getting
>
> Um, you just sent that to the list.
>
> I think that's now a priority to fix immediately.

Why? Personally, I think it falls under 'the right tool for the job' ...
there are two things I use MySQL for: phpAdsNew and Spamassassin/Bayes DB
... neither of which I care if there is data lost for, and for which using
Berkeley DB would work just as well, if I cared to learn its API ...

And ya, that is *still* the level I put MySQL at ... Berkeley DB + an SQL
frontend.

How many ppl on this list are using Berkeley DB for their stuff, when a
PostgreSQL backend is available? Postfix has native PostgreSQL hooks for
most of their maps, but how many ppl use that over hash tables?

But, as an aside, it has been awhile since I've tried phpPgAds, and
haven't with 8.1, so I've messaged Matteo offlist about seeing about
getting it to perform ... so, we'll see ...

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

Josh Berkus wrote:
> Marc,
>
>> As embarressing it is to say, we've been using the MySQL version of
>> phpAdsNew for almost a year now ... its the only one we could find that
>> could actually keep up with the # of hits that the web sites are getting
>
> Um, you just sent that to the list.
>
> I think that's now a priority to fix immediately. I wish you'd brought that
> up on pgsql-WWW, I don't think any of us would have found it acceptable to
> switch.

Not only that, we would have made sure we had the hardware to push it :)

Joshua D. Drake

>

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/

>
> I didn't surely want to cause all this, but I'm quite sure it was a
> phpPgAds fault: I've tried to optimize some things but it could still
> suffer a performance decrease from the fact that it was designed to run
> on mysql.

No, we are glad you brought it up... and besides now you are likely to
get several people that will help you tune your software for PostgreSQL.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

>
> Anyway with a little tuning things can get indeed better and that's true
> for both phpPgAds and phpAdsNew.
>
>
> Best regards
> --
> Matteo Beccati
> http://phpadsnew.com
> http://phppgads.com
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
>

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/

> Why? Personally, I think it falls under 'the right tool for the job'
> ... there are two things I use MySQL for: phpAdsNew and
> Spamassassin/Bayes DB ... neither of which I care if there is data lost
> for, and for which using Berkeley DB would work just as well, if I cared
> to learn its API ...

Well one argument would be that it isn't the right tool for the job but
that is VI vs Emacs :) However, if I were a MySQL advocate and I watched
this list, I would be all over the issue...

PostgreSQL website requires MySQL, hahahahahahahaa...

John, "Why would I use MySQL for my website over PostgreSQL?".
"Well, Frank did you know that even PostgreSQL uses MySQL for their
website?"

How long do you think it will take for people to let that go? We still
get people that think that Vacuum exclusively locks tables.

>
> And ya, that is *still* the level I put MySQL at ... Berkeley DB + an
> SQL frontend.

Ahhh but most people don't... Most people *think* that MySQL can
actually compete with PostgreSQL.

>
> How many ppl on this list are using Berkeley DB for their stuff, when a
> PostgreSQL backend is available? Postfix has native PostgreSQL hooks
> for most of their maps, but how many ppl use that over hash tables?

Not I :). I even made us switch to PostgreSQL for all our Trac sites.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

>
> But, as an aside, it has been awhile since I've tried phpPgAds, and
> haven't with 8.1, so I've messaged Matteo offlist about seeing about
> getting it to perform ... so, we'll see ...
>
> ----
> Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
>
> http://archives.postgresql.org
>

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/

Marc,

> Why? Personally, I think it falls under 'the right tool for the job' ...
> there are two things I use MySQL for: phpAdsNew and Spamassassin/Bayes DB
> ... neither of which I care if there is data lost for, and for which using
> Berkeley DB would work just as well, if I cared to learn its API ...

Well, problem #1 is that you never discussed this on pgsql-www that I can find
in the archives. It's quite possible that the other WWW team members would
not share your evaluation, and would have decided to take another course.
This looks like a case of you making a unilateral decision which other
members of the team could (will?) be required to do damage control on.

BTW, the reason Spamassassin requires MySQL is that it's badly designed -- on
my server we couldn't even use MySQL, we were running it in RAM because of
the I/O intensive design. If you switched to dspam, you could use Postgres
properly.

--
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco

Josh Berkus wrote:
> Marc,
>
>> Why? Personally, I think it falls under 'the right tool for the
>> job' ... there are two things I use MySQL for: phpAdsNew and
>> Spamassassin/Bayes DB ... neither of which I care if there is data
>> lost for, and for which using Berkeley DB would work just as well,
>> if I cared to learn its API ...
>
> Well, problem #1 is that you never discussed this on pgsql-www that I
> can find in the archives. It's quite possible that the other WWW
> team members would not share your evaluation, and would have decided
> to take another course. This looks like a case of you making a
> unilateral decision which other members of the team could (will?) be
> required to do damage control on.
>
> BTW, the reason Spamassassin requires MySQL is that it's badly
> designed -- on my server we couldn't even use MySQL, we were running
> it in RAM because of the I/O intensive design. If you switched to
> dspam, you could use Postgres properly.

I also believe that SpamAssassin 3.1.1 has a PostgreSQL friendly bayes
storage algorithm.

I'm likely to try it on mine here shortly.

--
Larry Rosenman http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 512-248-2683 E-Mail: ler(at)lerctr(dot)org
US Mail: 430 Valona Loop, Round Rock, TX 78681-3893

>
> BTW, the reason Spamassassin requires MySQL is that it's badly designed -- on
> my server we couldn't even use MySQL, we were running it in RAM because of
> the I/O intensive design. If you switched to dspam, you could use Postgres
> properly.

Offtopic but I can also state that Dspam works well.

Joshua D. Drake

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/

On Wed, 10 May 2006, Larry Rosenman wrote:

> Josh Berkus wrote:
>> Marc,
>>
>>> Why? Personally, I think it falls under 'the right tool for the
>>> job' ... there are two things I use MySQL for: phpAdsNew and
>>> Spamassassin/Bayes DB ... neither of which I care if there is data
>>> lost for, and for which using Berkeley DB would work just as well,
>>> if I cared to learn its API ...
>>
>> Well, problem #1 is that you never discussed this on pgsql-www that I
>> can find in the archives. It's quite possible that the other WWW
>> team members would not share your evaluation, and would have decided
>> to take another course. This looks like a case of you making a
>> unilateral decision which other members of the team could (will?) be
>> required to do damage control on.
>>
>> BTW, the reason Spamassassin requires MySQL is that it's badly
>> designed -- on my server we couldn't even use MySQL, we were running
>> it in RAM because of the I/O intensive design. If you switched to
>> dspam, you could use Postgres properly.
>
> I also believe that SpamAssassin 3.1.1 has a PostgreSQL friendly bayes
> storage algorithm.
>
> I'm likely to try it on mine here shortly.

Please let me know how it turns out ... we're running MAIA Mailguard here,
so switching to dspam isn't an option, but would be interested in moving
off of MySQL for this is the Bayes stuff actually was improved in 3.1.1
... the one thing I hate with MySQL is that I can't use a simple 'ps' to
see what the connections are doing ;(

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 09:01:13AM -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> Why? Personally, I think it falls under 'the right tool for the job' ...
> there are two things I use MySQL for: phpAdsNew and Spamassassin/Bayes DB
> ... neither of which I care if there is data lost for, and for which using
> Berkeley DB would work just as well, if I cared to learn its API ...
>
> And ya, that is *still* the level I put MySQL at ... Berkeley DB + an SQL
> frontend.

But that's not the level they or many other people put them at. If you'd
used just about any other database I think it'd be much easier to pass
it off as 'the right tool', especially if that database clearly didn't
compete against PostgreSQL (SQLite comes to mind).

> How many ppl on this list are using Berkeley DB for their stuff, when a
> PostgreSQL backend is available? Postfix has native PostgreSQL hooks for
> most of their maps, but how many ppl use that over hash tables?

There's a huge difference in the level of complexity of using the hash
tables versus using PostgreSQL, and functionally they're nothing alike.
That's why so many people (myself included) use the hash tables.
--
Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant jnasby(at)pervasive(dot)com
Pervasive Software http://pervasive.com work: 512-231-6117
vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461

On Thu, 11 May 2006, Jim C. Nasby wrote:

> But that's not the level they or many other people put them at. If you'd
> used just about any other database I think it'd be much easier to pass
> it off as 'the right tool', especially if that database clearly didn't
> compete against PostgreSQL (SQLite comes to mind).

Actually, just tried SQLite for my first time for a SASL2 backend ... no
overhead, but don't have to deal with BerkeleyDB stuff anymore ...
terrible CLI though ... then again, I've been using PostgreSQL for so long
that everything else just feels *clunky* ...

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664