Re: The big MySQL spin

Folks,

No doubt some of you have seen this by now:

http://enterprise-linux-it.newsfactor.com/
story.xhtml?story_title=JBoss_and_MySQL_Join_Forces&story_id=23041

What I find fascinating is how MySQL manages to declare how autocratic they
are, and make it seem like a good thing.

With any other publication, I would try to contact them with a reaction to
this article. However, NewsFactor does not take feedback; one can't contact
the reporters and the editor(at)newsfactor(dot)com mail address goes straight to /
dev/null/

Thoughts? Should we just ignore it?

--
-Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco

> What I find fascinating is how MySQL manages to declare how autocratic they
> are, and make it seem like a good thing.

OMG. Quotes like this just make me want to vomit:

"While something like PostgreSQL or Berkeley DB are straight
democracies," he explained, "MySQL -- and JBoss, to an extent -- are
more akin to representative democracies, such we have here in the U.S.
It's more efficient over the long haul."

Chris

Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote:
> > What I find fascinating is how MySQL manages to declare how autocratic they
> > are, and make it seem like a good thing.
>
> OMG. Quotes like this just make me want to vomit:
>
> "While something like PostgreSQL or Berkeley DB are straight
> democracies," he explained, "MySQL -- and JBoss, to an extent -- are
> more akin to representative democracies, such we have here in the U.S.
> It's more efficient over the long haul."

They are trying to respond to our strengths. It hasn't helped them in
the past, and it will not this time either. The idea that we are a
democracy comes right out of my "Adoption and Trends" talk which is on
my web site and was presented in Paris recently.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl(at)familyhealth(dot)com(dot)au> writes:
> OMG. Quotes like this just make me want to vomit:
>
> "While something like PostgreSQL or Berkeley DB are straight
> democracies," he explained, "MySQL -- and JBoss, to an extent -- are
> more akin to representative democracies, such we have here in the
> U.S. It's more efficient over the long haul."

I personally think Mr. Garry is wrong on both counts (PostgreSQL is
*not* a democracy, and neither is MySQL), but I'm not sure what it has
to do with us. An analyst has an opinion on a subjective matter, and
it happened to be reported in a news story. Big deal.

-Neil

Neil Conway wrote:
> Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl(at)familyhealth(dot)com(dot)au> writes:
> > OMG. Quotes like this just make me want to vomit:
> >
> > "While something like PostgreSQL or Berkeley DB are straight
> > democracies," he explained, "MySQL -- and JBoss, to an extent -- are
> > more akin to representative democracies, such we have here in the
> > U.S. It's more efficient over the long haul."
>
> I personally think Mr. Garry is wrong on both counts (PostgreSQL is
> *not* a democracy, and neither is MySQL), but I'm not sure what it has
> to do with us. An analyst has an opinion on a subjective matter, and
> it happened to be reported in a news story. Big deal.

I sort of thought we were a democracy, no?

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> Neil Conway wrote:
> > Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl(at)familyhealth(dot)com(dot)au> writes:
> > > OMG. Quotes like this just make me want to vomit:
> > >
> > > "While something like PostgreSQL or Berkeley DB are straight
> > > democracies," he explained, "MySQL -- and JBoss, to an extent -- are
> > > more akin to representative democracies, such we have here in the
> > > U.S. It's more efficient over the long haul."
> >
> > I personally think Mr. Garry is wrong on both counts (PostgreSQL is
> > *not* a democracy, and neither is MySQL), but I'm not sure what it has
> > to do with us. An analyst has an opinion on a subjective matter, and
> > it happened to be reported in a news story. Big deal.
>
> I sort of thought we were a democracy, no?

Benevelant autocracy(sp?) ... core isn't voted ... just cause we defer to
-hackers 99.9% of the time doesn't make us a democracy ... in the end,
core acts akin to MySQL AB, other then we're probably alot more quiet :)

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

In the last exciting episode, chriskl(at)familyhealth(dot)com(dot)au (Christopher Kings-Lynne) wrote:
>> What I find fascinating is how MySQL manages to declare how
>> autocratic they are, and make it seem like a good thing.
>
> OMG. Quotes like this just make me want to vomit:
>
> "While something like PostgreSQL or Berkeley DB are straight
> democracies," he explained, "MySQL -- and JBoss, to an extent -- are
> more akin to representative democracies, such we have here in the
> U.S. It's more efficient over the long haul."

It's just complete nonsense; some sort of claimed "spin" presumably
for the purpose of having _some_ sort of response to Bruce's comments
about 'community.'

If anything, PostgreSQL is the _only_ one of the lot having something
akin to "representative democracy." If I want to get a feature in, I
need to go and find a "representative" in Core to champion that
feature. Seems pretty "representative" to me.

In contrast, the claim that Berkeley DB is some sort of 'straight
democracy' is also just ludicrous. The direction of Berkeley DB is
controlled by the staff of the private company, Sleepycat Software,
which presumably makes it identically "autocratic" to all the others.
That's not a bash, by any means; I have exchanged emails with Keith
Bostic in the past, and all has been well and congenial.

I just can't fathom how the author could have competently concluded
that that company's product represents some sort of "straight
democracy;" it leaves me a little speechless...
--
output = ("cbbrowne" "@" "cbbrowne.com")
http://cbbrowne.com/info/multiplexor.html
You have a tendency to feel you are superior to most computers.

Chris,

> I just can't fathom how the author could have competently concluded
> that that company's product represents some sort of "straight
> democracy;" it leaves me a little speechless...

Could have something to do with the fact that Newsfactor is all stringers
(freelancers) with no editorial oversight, and is one of the most notoriously
stingy news sites on the internet?

Nah. Of course not.

--
-Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco

On Wednesday 10 March 2004 11:18 pm, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > I sort of thought we were a democracy, no?

> Benevelant autocracy(sp?) ... core isn't voted ... just cause we defer to
> -hackers 99.9% of the time doesn't make us a democracy ... in the end,
> core acts akin to MySQL AB, other then we're probably alot more quiet :)

Benevolent oligarchy is the term you want.
--
Lamar Owen
Director of Information Technology
Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute
1 PARI Drive
Rosman, NC 28772
(828)862-5554
www.pari.edu

Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> > Neil Conway wrote:
> > > Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl(at)familyhealth(dot)com(dot)au> writes:
> > > > OMG. Quotes like this just make me want to vomit:
> > > >
> > > > "While something like PostgreSQL or Berkeley DB are straight
> > > > democracies," he explained, "MySQL -- and JBoss, to an extent -- are
> > > > more akin to representative democracies, such we have here in the
> > > > U.S. It's more efficient over the long haul."
> > >
> > > I personally think Mr. Garry is wrong on both counts (PostgreSQL is
> > > *not* a democracy, and neither is MySQL), but I'm not sure what it has
> > > to do with us. An analyst has an opinion on a subjective matter, and
> > > it happened to be reported in a news story. Big deal.
> >
> > I sort of thought we were a democracy, no?
>
> Benevelant autocracy(sp?) ... core isn't voted ... just cause we defer to
> -hackers 99.9% of the time doesn't make us a democracy ... in the end,
> core acts akin to MySQL AB, other then we're probably alot more quiet :)

Yea, you are right. We just try to make it look like a democracy, and a
damn good job at it. :-)

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Lamar Owen wrote:

> On Wednesday 10 March 2004 11:18 pm, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > I sort of thought we were a democracy, no?
>
> > Benevelant autocracy(sp?) ... core isn't voted ... just cause we defer to
> > -hackers 99.9% of the time doesn't make us a democracy ... in the end,
> > core acts akin to MySQL AB, other then we're probably alot more quiet :)
>
> Benevolent oligarchy is the term you want.

Other then laughing at policitians in the news, politics isn't my strong
suit :)

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> Yea, you are right. We just try to make it look like a democracy, and a
> damn good job at it. :-)

Apparently too good :) Actually, if you think the MySQL/JBoss guys got
the democracy thing out of your papers, you *might* want to re-word them
to put forth the 'benevalent oligarchy' perceptions vs democracy ... to be
honest, I think the major mistake that the article had in it *was* that it
label'd OSS as generally democratic ... in most cases, it isn't ...

FreeBSD has a 'core', Linux has Linus ... there is always a "controlling
power" at the top of the food chain ... whether or not they impose their
will often (or ever) is another story, but its still there ...

Myself, I tend to think of OSS more in terms of "the Corporation" ... the
core is the board of directors who *generally* stay out of the day-to-day
operations, but tends to oversee much of it in case something got awry ...

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Josh Berkus wrote:

> Folks,
>
> No doubt some of you have seen this by now:
>
> http://enterprise-linux-it.newsfactor.com/
> story.xhtml?story_title=JBoss_and_MySQL_Join_Forces&story_id=23041
>
> What I find fascinating is how MySQL manages to declare how autocratic they
> are, and make it seem like a good thing.
>
> With any other publication, I would try to contact them with a reaction to
> this article. However, NewsFactor does not take feedback; one can't contact
> the reporters and the editor(at)newsfactor(dot)com mail address goes straight to /
> dev/null/
>
> Thoughts? Should we just ignore it?

The sad thing is that I met a couple of the JBoss folks at OSConn a year
and a half ago, and they are consumate computer scientists. They "get
it". The FirebirdSQL folks, they "get it". The sleepy cat guy, "got it".
They all write quality software and strive for correct, bug free operation
of their software.

So I'm guessing it wasn't the chief hackers at JBoss that picked MySQL for
a playtime partner. I'm guessing it was a newly hired suit that came with
their recent capitalization.

FirebirdSQL or Postgresql would both be a much better choice for databases
to put underneath a J2EE server, and I'm willing to bet money that the
coders at JBoss know it.

JBoss is doing their customers no favors here.

>
> JBoss is doing their customers no favors here.

Actually they are. Through this partnership they will create increased
market penetration and commmercial viability. That does their customers
a favor because it presents stability and longevity.

From a technical perspective you are correct but in the business world
of wool suits and 300.00 ties, the technical perspective means exactly
zip. It how good the guy in that suit feels about the technology being
implemented (thus Windows for example).

The exception being companies with a long standing technical background.
Have you ever noticed that almost ALL migrations to OSS are driven by:

1. They have a large, existing UNIX installation thus they don't see a
big difference using Linux.
2. They are after cost savings.

You almost never (I never have) seen a migration that says:

We moved to Linux and PostgreSQL over MSSQL and Windows2000 because
Linux is better or PostgreSQL is bettter.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

>
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On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> You almost never (I never have) seen a migration that says:
>
> We moved to Linux and PostgreSQL over MSSQL and Windows2000 because
> Linux is better or PostgreSQL is bettter.

Actually, it depends on the environment ... I spent about 7years in a
University CS dept and "costs" for the MS stuff wasn't a factor, but MS
products were avoided like the plague when it came to production stuff ...
I had a good portion of productions servers (dhcp, named, mail, news,
proxy, etc) moved to FreeBSD (and PostgreSQL, where applicable) before I
left because it *was* better, not because of costs ...

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

> FreeBSD has a 'core', Linux has Linus ... there is always a "controlling
> power" at the top of the food chain ... whether or not they impose their
> will often (or ever) is another story, but its still there ...

Anyone who's ever tried to get a dodgy patch past Tom knows why good
open source projects need a "core"... :)

Chris

> FirebirdSQL or Postgresql would both be a much better choice for databases
> to put underneath a J2EE server, and I'm willing to bet money that the
> coders at JBoss know it.
>
> JBoss is doing their customers no favors here.

JBoss customers need a windows version. PostgreSQL cannot offer that.

Chris

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote:

> > FirebirdSQL or Postgresql would both be a much better choice for databases
> > to put underneath a J2EE server, and I'm willing to bet money that the
> > coders at JBoss know it.
> >
> > JBoss is doing their customers no favors here.
>
> JBoss customers need a windows version. PostgreSQL cannot offer that.

True, but FirebirdSQL does, and it's far superior to MySQL.

Christopher Browne wrote:
> In the last exciting episode, chriskl(at)familyhealth(dot)com(dot)au (Christopher Kings-Lynne) wrote:
> >> What I find fascinating is how MySQL manages to declare how
> >> autocratic they are, and make it seem like a good thing.
> >
> > OMG. Quotes like this just make me want to vomit:
> >
> > "While something like PostgreSQL or Berkeley DB are straight
> > democracies," he explained, "MySQL -- and JBoss, to an extent -- are
> > more akin to representative democracies, such we have here in the
> > U.S. It's more efficient over the long haul."
>
> It's just complete nonsense; some sort of claimed "spin" presumably
> for the purpose of having _some_ sort of response to Bruce's comments
> about 'community.'
>
> If anything, PostgreSQL is the _only_ one of the lot having something
> akin to "representative democracy." If I want to get a feature in, I
> need to go and find a "representative" in Core to champion that
> feature. Seems pretty "representative" to me.

You don't need core buy-in to get a patch applied. Core may make
suggestions, as others will, before it finally gets in, but you can
shoot for a vote anytime.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

In an attempt to throw the authorities off his trail, pgman(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us (Bruce Momjian) transmitted:
> Christopher Browne wrote:
>> In the last exciting episode, chriskl(at)familyhealth(dot)com(dot)au (Christopher Kings-Lynne) wrote:
>> >> What I find fascinating is how MySQL manages to declare how
>> >> autocratic they are, and make it seem like a good thing.
>> >
>> > OMG. Quotes like this just make me want to vomit:
>> >
>> > "While something like PostgreSQL or Berkeley DB are straight
>> > democracies," he explained, "MySQL -- and JBoss, to an extent -- are
>> > more akin to representative democracies, such we have here in the
>> > U.S. It's more efficient over the long haul."
>>
>> It's just complete nonsense; some sort of claimed "spin" presumably
>> for the purpose of having _some_ sort of response to Bruce's comments
>> about 'community.'
>>
>> If anything, PostgreSQL is the _only_ one of the lot having something
>> akin to "representative democracy." If I want to get a feature in, I
>> need to go and find a "representative" in Core to champion that
>> feature. Seems pretty "representative" to me.
>
> You don't need core buy-in to get a patch applied. Core may make
> suggestions, as others will, before it finally gets in, but you can
> shoot for a vote anytime.

Well, if I want a patch added, it needs to get applied by _somebody_.
Core's a pretty "usual set of suspects" on that :-).

The issue of whether it all precisely fits with "democracy" or
"autocracy" or such seems pretty iffy, in any case. It's _not_ an
"anarchal syndicalist commune" (in Monty Python and the Holy Grail
style), but attempts to pigeonhole these things surely point people's
thoughts to Pythonesque zaniness.

The slant that hasn't been noticed that is probably the _real_ desire
is for people to look at things with the following parallel:

- MySQL gets compared to "representative democracy," the wondrous way
of the US.

- The alternatives are _obviously_ suspiciously UnAmerican political
arrangements.

Heavens! "Pure democracy!" that's the sort of UnAmerican arrangement
that only occurs in a "peoples' democratic republic," which means that
our corporate friends are wrapped in the Red, White, and Blue, and the
rest of us must be, well, Reds...
--
output = reverse("gro.mca" "@" "enworbbc")
http://cbbrowne.com/info/postgresql.html
Monday is an awful way to spend one seventh of your life. -- Unknown

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Christopher Browne wrote:

> - MySQL gets compared to "representative democracy," the wondrous way
> of the US.

The US ... oh ya, that's the country south of me that comes up with shady
intelligence as a means to justify blowing apart a country and hoping to
put it back together in some sort of reasonable time frame, right? :)
Almost sounds like MySQL 'crash-me' test ;)

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

Marc,

> The US ... oh ya, that's the country south of me that comes up with shady
> intelligence as a means to justify blowing apart a country and hoping to
> put it back together in some sort of reasonable time frame, right? :)
> Almost sounds like MySQL 'crash-me' test ;)

HEY! That's completely unfair.

The "crash-me" test is actually OK and more fair than I expected it to be.
;-)

--
-Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Josh Berkus wrote:

> Marc,
>
> > The US ... oh ya, that's the country south of me that comes up with shady
> > intelligence as a means to justify blowing apart a country and hoping to
> > put it back together in some sort of reasonable time frame, right? :)
> > Almost sounds like MySQL 'crash-me' test ;)
>
> HEY! That's completely unfair.
>
> The "crash-me" test is actually OK and more fair than I expected it to be.
> ;-)

Canadian politics are fun ... our politicians are generally idiots, but so
far we've avoided the 'religious fanatics' *shiver* we have one party
here that may yet change that ...

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Christopher Browne wrote:
>
>
>> - MySQL gets compared to "representative democracy," the wondrous way
>> of the US.
>
>
> The US ... oh ya, that's the country south of me that comes up with shady
> intelligence as a means to justify blowing apart a country and hoping to
> put it back together in some sort of reasonable time frame, right? :)

Easy... Some people one this list may take offense to a comment such as
that.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

> Almost sounds like MySQL 'crash-me' test ;)
>
> ----
> Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html

Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Christopher Browne wrote:
>>
>>
>>> - MySQL gets compared to "representative democracy," the wondrous way
>>> of the US.
>>
>>
>> The US ... oh ya, that's the country south of me that comes up with shady
>> intelligence as a means to justify blowing apart a country and hoping to
>> put it back together in some sort of reasonable time frame, right? :)
>
> Easy... Some people one this list may take offense to a comment such as
> that.

That's only the people who try to cover up their shame and awkwardness
by "getting offended". They should be offended by things like this

http://www.counterpunch.org/boles1010.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/green02242003.html
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/23/news-crogan.php

which is an important part of what Marc was talking about because that
was the reason why said shady intelligence was necessary in the first
place. I think that is more broken pride than offense.

Regards,
Jan

>
> Sincerely,
>
> Joshua D. Drake
>
>
>
>> Almost sounds like MySQL 'crash-me' test ;)
>>
>> ----
>> Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
>> Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
>>
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>
>
>
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On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 07:00:41AM -0500, Lamar Owen wrote:
> Benevolent oligarchy is the term you want.

Benevolent oligarchic meritocracy, perhaps. It seems to me that this
project takes more seriously than any other I've seen the idea that
the best code wins, and you'd better be able to explain your idea of
"best". Sure, one can get skewered pretty badly on -hackers for being
wrong; that's good. It sure seems to make for better code. Also, it
seems to make for remarkably few political struggles.

A

--
Andrew Sullivan | ajs(at)crankycanuck(dot)ca

Andrew,

> Also, it
> seems to make for remarkably few political struggles.

Not really ... mostly we're just good at keeping our struggles out of the
public eye, and focused on "what's good for PostgreSQL."

As I've said before, mostly it's a matter of trust; very few people would
accuse Tom or Bruce of having ulterior motives that would trump their desires
to promote & improve postgresql. So while one may disagree with Tom on
hackers (and lose the argument) one pretty much always feels that one's ideas
were rejected on real grounds of merit, strategy, or database theory -- even
if you don't agree with his conclusions.

Of course, there is a real finesse to getting your ideas through Hackers. ;-)

--
-Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Andrew Sullivan wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 07:00:41AM -0500, Lamar Owen wrote:
> > Benevolent oligarchy is the term you want.
>
> Benevolent oligarchic meritocracy, perhaps. It seems to me that this
> project takes more seriously than any other I've seen the idea that
> the best code wins, and you'd better be able to explain your idea of
> "best". Sure, one can get skewered pretty badly on -hackers for being
> wrong; that's good. It sure seems to make for better code. Also, it
> seems to make for remarkably few political struggles.

Ya, its been something we've been complimented on many times over the
years ... the "low incidence" of flame wars on the lists ... we have the
occasional, but they never get too far out of hand, or last long ... I
think we tend to be a relatively mature (not old, just mature) group ...

----
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Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

On Mon, Mar 15, 2004 at 12:34:01PM -0800, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Andrew,
>
> > Also, it
> > seems to make for remarkably few political struggles.
>
> Not really ... mostly we're just good at keeping our struggles out of the
> public eye, and focused on "what's good for PostgreSQL."

Where I come from, political struggles that stay out of the public
eye are just disagreements. I guess my point is mostly (as you note)
that the real force seems to have to do with reason rather than naked
appeal to power. And while I may have a great deal of sympathy with
Foucault, I don't go for the line that there's simply no difference
at all between, "You shouldn't write your code that way because it
breaks on SCO," and, "You shouldn't write your code that way because
I won't let it get committed if you do." Both are good arguments in
favour of writing your code differently; only one of them gives you
an inkling why anyone would care what you did.

Ok, I'm putting the philosopher back in its box now. Bye bye,
philosopher. Please go away :)

A

--
Andrew Sullivan | ajs(at)crankycanuck(dot)ca

* Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl(at)familyhealth(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:

<snip>
> JBoss customers need a windows version. PostgreSQL cannot offer that.
has anyone tried to compile psql under cygwin or mingw32 ? ;-)

cu
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Enrico Weigelt == metux IT service

phone: +49 36207 519931 www: http://www.metux.de/
fax: +49 36207 519932 email: contact(at)metux(dot)de
cellphone: +49 174 7066481
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Hello,

There are Cygwin versions available now... From Cygwin and nicely
packaged ones from Command Prompt and DbExperts.

Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> * Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl(at)familyhealth(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>JBoss customers need a windows version. PostgreSQL cannot offer that.
>
> has anyone tried to compile psql under cygwin or mingw32 ? ;-)
>
> cu

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