Re: A briefing is needed...

Greetings!

Well, thanks for finally letting me in, I promise not to spit on the floor.

The reason I'm in here was because I proposed some changes to website
layout:
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2004-01/msg00161.php
and then even made a mock-up of them:
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2004-01/msg00222.php
but was informed by Robert Treat that PostgreSQL website is in such a
sorry state that it cannot be quickly redesigned.

Thus I'm willing to contribute a bit of my time to website development.
I'd like to know some things before I start:

1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a
member of website team", but actively working?
2) Is there an adequate design available for postgresql.org? Current
thing looks extremely unprofessional, and I'm sure that there are a lot
of people who would be willing to contribute their skills for
postgresql.org...
3) Is the thing in portal dir in pgweb module the "new" postgresql.org?
If yes, what needs to be done to it to make it "live"? Is there some
TODO list? Where is database schema?
4) If the "portal" thing is not quite there yet, should I dedicate some
time to moving the common HTML to common header/footer in the current
www dir?

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:

> Greetings!
>
> Well, thanks for finally letting me in, I promise not to spit on the floor.
>
> The reason I'm in here was because I proposed some changes to website
> layout:
> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2004-01/msg00161.php
> and then even made a mock-up of them:
> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2004-01/msg00222.php
> but was informed by Robert Treat that PostgreSQL website is in such a
> sorry state that it cannot be quickly redesigned.
>
> Thus I'm willing to contribute a bit of my time to website development.
> I'd like to know some things before I start:
>
> 1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a
> member of website team", but actively working?

From my understanding, any work on the web site is on hold until
Adrian(sp?) finishes the work he's doing on internationalization ...

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

Hi!

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

>>1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a
>>member of website team", but actively working?
>
>
>>From my understanding, any work on the web site is on hold until
> Adrian(sp?) finishes the work he's doing on internationalization ...

From my understanding, his work is in the portal directory of pgweb,
and the last commit there was 2 months ago...

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
> >>1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a
> >>member of website team", but actively working?
> >
> >
> >>From my understanding, any work on the web site is on hold until
> > Adrian(sp?) finishes the work he's doing on internationalization ...
>
> From my understanding, his work is in the portal directory of pgweb,
> and the last commit there was 2 months ago...

that doesn't mean anything if he is working on his home computer, but, I
think that Adrian just pop'd up recently wondering what was outstanding,
so I think he's looking for feedback on what he's done ...

right now, I think Adrian might be on Chapter 2, while the rest of us
still think we're on Chapter 1 ... the fun part of collaborative work,
making sure everyone knows where everyone else is sitting :)

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

Hi!

Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> that doesn't mean anything if he is working on his home computer, but, I
> think that Adrian just pop'd up recently wondering what was outstanding,
> so I think he's looking for feedback on what he's done ...
>
> right now, I think Adrian might be on Chapter 2, while the rest of us
> still think we're on Chapter 1 ... the fun part of collaborative work,
> making sure everyone knows where everyone else is sitting :)

Translation: even you, the leader of the whole project, don't know
anything about what's going on with the website. Encouraging. :]

On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 13:14, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> >
> > >>1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a
> > >>member of website team", but actively working?
> > >
> > >
> > >>From my understanding, any work on the web site is on hold until
> > > Adrian(sp?) finishes the work he's doing on internationalization ...
> >
> > From my understanding, his work is in the portal directory of pgweb,
> > and the last commit there was 2 months ago...
>
> that doesn't mean anything if he is working on his home computer, but, I
> think that Adrian just pop'd up recently wondering what was outstanding,
> so I think he's looking for feedback on what he's done ...
>
> right now, I think Adrian might be on Chapter 2, while the rest of us
> still think we're on Chapter 1 ... the fun part of collaborative work,
> making sure everyone knows where everyone else is sitting :)
>

Alexy, I sent an email to _Andreas_ asking for an update on the status
of his code. (CC'd to the list, but maybe before you were subscribed) so
we're waiting on a reply from him.

about the database schema... is the schema enough? for the main site i
believe we have all of the docs loaded into the database as well, which
makes it a fairly large for downloading if you want data with it. If
the schema is enough though I can make a schema dump and check it in.

Robert Treat
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > that doesn't mean anything if he is working on his home computer, but, I
> > think that Adrian just pop'd up recently wondering what was outstanding,
> > so I think he's looking for feedback on what he's done ...
> >
> > right now, I think Adrian might be on Chapter 2, while the rest of us
> > still think we're on Chapter 1 ... the fun part of collaborative work,
> > making sure everyone knows where everyone else is sitting :)
>
> Translation: even you, the leader of the whole project, don't know
> anything about what's going on with the website. Encouraging. :]

Dave/Robert are the webmaster(s) ... I just put my input in when asked ...
I am the first person to admit that my "creative abilities" leave alot to
be desired at the best of times, so other then knowing what I don't like,
I'm useless on the web site :)

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

If you mean me, my name is Andreas :)

However, I must confess I didn't do anything on the code since we started the discussion on the Layout/XHTML/CSS (I think that was mid November). This also means the old todo list I posted that time should be even current. I currently can't find it, does anyone have it archived?

The last summary was the code is working (well, it was, it may need some updates now as the main code has been changed) and we now need the new layout before we can import the pages...

I'm sorry I wasn't very active on this list the last months (but I'm of course reading it), I'm very busy (and everytime one project ends I get two new projects :( so I don't think I can spend much time on this for the next two to three months, I'm sorry).

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Andreas Grabmüller

----- Original-Nachricht -----
Von: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy(at)postgresql(dot)org>
An: Alexey Borzov <borz_off(at)cs(dot)msu(dot)su>
CC: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy(at)postgresql(dot)org>, pgsql-www(at)postgresql(dot)org
Datum: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 07:21 PM
Betreff: [pgsql-www] A briefing is needed...

> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> >
> > >>1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a
> > >>member of website team", but actively working?
> > >
> > >
> > >>From my understanding, any work on the web site is on hold until
> > > Adrian(sp?) finishes the work he's doing on internationalization ...
> >
> > From my understanding, his work is in the portal directory of pgweb,
> > and the last commit there was 2 months ago...
>
> that doesn't mean anything if he is working on his home computer, but, I
> think that Adrian just pop'd up recently wondering what was outstanding,
> so I think he's looking for feedback on what he's done ...
>
> right now, I think Adrian might be on Chapter 2, while the rest of us
> still think we're on Chapter 1 ... the fun part of collaborative work,
> making sure everyone knows where everyone else is sitting :)
>
> ----
> Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html

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Subject: Re: Issues with Andreas Code
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From: "Andreas Grabmüller" <webmaster(at)letzplay(dot)de>
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The docs worked fine with 7.3 so I don't think we have any problems with 7.4...

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Andreas Grabmüller

----- Original-Nachricht -----
Von: "Dave Page" <dpage(at)vale-housing(dot)co(dot)uk>
An: "Robert Treat" <xzilla(at)users(dot)sourceforge(dot)net>, "Andreas Grabmller" <webmaster(at)letzplay(dot)de>
CC: <pgsql-www(at)postgresql(dot)org>
Datum: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 02:02 PM
Betreff: Issues with Andreas Code

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert Treat [mailto:xzilla(at)users(dot)sourceforge(dot)net]
> > Sent: 14 January 2004 12:57
> > To: Dave Page; Andreas Grabmller
> > Cc: pgsql-www(at)postgresql(dot)org
> > Subject: Issues with Andreas Code
> >
> > We have a few new guys looking to help out with the website
> > development, can you two send to the list an overview of the
> > remaining issues with Andreas code so we can be sure it's in
> > the list archives?
>
> I don't know what the outstanding issues are (other than some design
> ones). I'm also unsure whether it works with the docs/idocs yet.
>
> /D

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Subject: Re: Issues with Andreas Code
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It's rumoured that Andreas Grabmüller once said:
> The docs worked fine with 7.3 so I don't think we have any problems
> with 7.4...
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen
> Andreas Grabmüller

Ahh, that's good. What actually needs doing to get it live?

Regards, Dave

OK folks... heres what I have looking back at Andreas emails:

1) Some fine tuning on the layout
2) Adding the static pages
3) Translating the pages, news, events etc. into german and maybe some
other languages if we find someone to translate it
4) Creating something that handles old links as the new ones are not
compatible
5) Reformatting the PHP code as some parts currently look horrible ;)
6) All the things I have forgotten...

which all seems pretty vauge... so ISTM the next step is for someone to
create an actual working copy of the site; maybe dave at
devel.postgresql.org and a couple others at home; so we can do some
testing on it and see what needs to be fixed. (#1 #2 #6)

I think #3 can wait till we go live ie. once its up people can begin
working on translations.

#5 is another behind the scenes kind of thing, so unless we turn up
anything overly crusty I think this can be done once released (and might
have to be depending on layout changes needed)

#4 might be tricky... how different are the urls? we'll need to try to
work something out for that.

does this sound workable to everyone?

Robert Treat

On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 14:00, Andreas Grabmüller wrote:
> If you mean me, my name is Andreas :)
>
> However, I must confess I didn't do anything on the code since we started the discussion on the Layout/XHTML/CSS (I think that was mid November). This also means the old todo list I posted that time should be even current. I currently can't find it, does anyone have it archived?
>
> The last summary was the code is working (well, it was, it may need some updates now as the main code has been changed) and we now need the new layout before we can import the pages...
>
> I'm sorry I wasn't very active on this list the last months (but I'm of course reading it), I'm very busy (and everytime one project ends I get two new projects :( so I don't think I can spend much time on this for the next two to three months, I'm sorry).
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen
> Andreas Grabmüller
>
> ----- Original-Nachricht -----
> Von: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy(at)postgresql(dot)org>
> An: Alexey Borzov <borz_off(at)cs(dot)msu(dot)su>
> CC: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy(at)postgresql(dot)org>, pgsql-www(at)postgresql(dot)org
> Datum: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 07:21 PM
> Betreff: [pgsql-www] A briefing is needed...
>
> > On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> >
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > >
> > > >>1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a
> > > >>member of website team", but actively working?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>From my understanding, any work on the web site is on hold until
> > > > Adrian(sp?) finishes the work he's doing on internationalization ...
> > >
> > > From my understanding, his work is in the portal directory of pgweb,
> > > and the last commit there was 2 months ago...
> >
> > that doesn't mean anything if he is working on his home computer, but, I
> > think that Adrian just pop'd up recently wondering what was outstanding,
> > so I think he's looking for feedback on what he's done ...
> >
> > right now, I think Adrian might be on Chapter 2, while the rest of us
> > still think we're on Chapter 1 ... the fun part of collaborative work,
> > making sure everyone knows where everyone else is sitting :)
> >
> > ----
> > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> > Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
> >
> > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
> >
> > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
>
> --
> LetzPlay.de
> | Freemail: http://www.letzplay.de/mail
> | Forenhosting: http://www.letzplay.de/foren
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Dear Robert Treat

>does this sound workable to everyone?
>
>
Yes as per me its workable lets hear about others

Regards
Vishal Kashyap

Thank you for finding it :)

About the urls: The new ones all look like the following:

/en/{page}.htm
/en/documentation/{version}/(interactive|static)/{page}.htm

It should not be difficult to create an automatic wrapper for the documentation as version, interactive|static and page are the same. The big problem are the other pages as the page names are not compatible (by design: For example, the surveys do now have the url survey.{number}.htm and so on. Nothing of the output has .php links any more for search engine compatibility and caching ability). So I beliefe we need to create a wrapper for each and every page...

For anyone who has not seen it yet, you can see the current status at http://wwwdevel2.postgresql.org

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Andreas Grabmüller

----- Original-Nachricht -----
Von: "Robert Treat" <xzilla(at)users(dot)sourceforge(dot)net>
An: webmaster(at)letzplay(dot)de
CC: borz_off(at)cs(dot)msu(dot)su, scrappy(at)postgresql(dot)org, pgsql-www(at)postgresql(dot)org
Datum: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 08:14 PM
Betreff: [pgsql-www] A briefing is needed...

> OK folks... heres what I have looking back at Andreas emails:
>
> 1) Some fine tuning on the layout
> 2) Adding the static pages
> 3) Translating the pages, news, events etc. into german and maybe some
> other languages if we find someone to translate it
> 4) Creating something that handles old links as the new ones are not
> compatible
> 5) Reformatting the PHP code as some parts currently look horrible ;)
> 6) All the things I have forgotten...
>
> which all seems pretty vauge... so ISTM the next step is for someone to
> create an actual working copy of the site; maybe dave at
> devel.postgresql.org and a couple others at home; so we can do some
> testing on it and see what needs to be fixed. (#1 #2 #6)
>
> I think #3 can wait till we go live ie. once its up people can begin
> working on translations.
>
> #5 is another behind the scenes kind of thing, so unless we turn up
> anything overly crusty I think this can be done once released (and might
> have to be depending on layout changes needed)
>
> #4 might be tricky... how different are the urls? we'll need to try to
> work something out for that.
>
>
> does this sound workable to everyone?
>
> Robert Treat
>
> On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 14:00, Andreas Grabmüller wrote:
> > If you mean me, my name is Andreas :)
> >
> > However, I must confess I didn't do anything on the code since we started the discussion on the Layout/XHTML/CSS (I think that was mid November). This also means the old todo list I posted that time should be even current. I currently can't find it, does anyone have it archived?
> >
> > The last summary was the code is working (well, it was, it may need some updates now as the main code has been changed) and we now need the new layout before we can import the pages...
> >
> > I'm sorry I wasn't very active on this list the last months (but I'm of course reading it), I'm very busy (and everytime one project ends I get two new projects :( so I don't think I can spend much time on this for the next two to three months, I'm sorry).
> >
> > Mit freundlichen Grüßen
> > Andreas Grabmüller
> >
> > ----- Original-Nachricht -----
> > Von: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy(at)postgresql(dot)org>
> > An: Alexey Borzov <borz_off(at)cs(dot)msu(dot)su>
> > CC: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy(at)postgresql(dot)org>, pgsql-www(at)postgresql(dot)org
> > Datum: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 07:21 PM
> > Betreff: [pgsql-www] A briefing is needed...
> >
> > > On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi!
> > > >
> > > > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >>1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a
> > > > >>member of website team", but actively working?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>From my understanding, any work on the web site is on hold until
> > > > > Adrian(sp?) finishes the work he's doing on internationalization ...
> > > >
> > > > From my understanding, his work is in the portal directory of pgweb,
> > > > and the last commit there was 2 months ago...
> > >
> > > that doesn't mean anything if he is working on his home computer, but, I
> > > think that Adrian just pop'd up recently wondering what was outstanding,
> > > so I think he's looking for feedback on what he's done ...
> > >
> > > right now, I think Adrian might be on Chapter 2, while the rest of us
> > > still think we're on Chapter 1 ... the fun part of collaborative work,
> > > making sure everyone knows where everyone else is sitting :)
> > >
> > > ----
> > > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> > > Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
> > >
> > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
> > >
> > > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
> >
> > --
> > LetzPlay.de
> > | Freemail: http://www.letzplay.de/mail
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>From pgsql-www-owner(at)postgresql(dot)org Wed Jan 14 15:32:56 2004
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From: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e(at)gmx(dot)net>
To: pgsql-www(at)postgresql(dot)org
Subject: Animated advertisement banners
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:32:25 +0100
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Can we get rid of animated advertisement banners sometime? They make
the site look ridiculous.

On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 14:33, Andreas Grabmüller wrote:
> Thank you for finding it :)
>
> About the urls: The new ones all look like the following:
>
> /en/{page}.htm
> /en/documentation/{version}/(interactive|static)/{page}.htm
>

we need to change /documentation/ to /docs/ but otherwise can we put in
an error handler document that, upon 404 adds an /en/ bit into the URL?
seems that would catch most of the old links. (unless we can just leave
out /en/ for the english site entirely and just have the /gr/ show up
for other langs...

> It should not be difficult to create an automatic wrapper for the documentation as version, interactive|static and page are the same. The big problem are the other pages as the page names are not compatible (by design: For example, the surveys do now have the url survey.{number}.htm and so on. Nothing of the output has .php links any more for search engine compatibility and caching ability). So I beliefe we need to create a wrapper for each and every page...
>

i'm not overly concerned about breaking links for the surveys.. does the
news have to be done that way? i'd be more concerned about keeping those
links working, though again with some magic error-handler tech we could
overcome it....

> For anyone who has not seen it yet, you can see the current status at http://wwwdevel2.postgresql.org
>

Aah... one problem I now recall is the right menu bar doesn't line up
with the right banner add at the top, we should fix that.

Robert Treat

> Mit freundlichen Grüßen
> Andreas Grabmüller
>
> ----- Original-Nachricht -----
> Von: "Robert Treat" <xzilla(at)users(dot)sourceforge(dot)net>
> An: webmaster(at)letzplay(dot)de
> CC: borz_off(at)cs(dot)msu(dot)su, scrappy(at)postgresql(dot)org, pgsql-www(at)postgresql(dot)org
> Datum: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 08:14 PM
> Betreff: [pgsql-www] A briefing is needed...
>
> > OK folks... heres what I have looking back at Andreas emails:
> >
> > 1) Some fine tuning on the layout
> > 2) Adding the static pages
> > 3) Translating the pages, news, events etc. into german and maybe some
> > other languages if we find someone to translate it
> > 4) Creating something that handles old links as the new ones are not
> > compatible
> > 5) Reformatting the PHP code as some parts currently look horrible ;)
> > 6) All the things I have forgotten...
> >
> > which all seems pretty vauge... so ISTM the next step is for someone to
> > create an actual working copy of the site; maybe dave at
> > devel.postgresql.org and a couple others at home; so we can do some
> > testing on it and see what needs to be fixed. (#1 #2 #6)
> >
> > I think #3 can wait till we go live ie. once its up people can begin
> > working on translations.
> >
> > #5 is another behind the scenes kind of thing, so unless we turn up
> > anything overly crusty I think this can be done once released (and might
> > have to be depending on layout changes needed)
> >
> > #4 might be tricky... how different are the urls? we'll need to try to
> > work something out for that.
> >
> >
> > does this sound workable to everyone?
> >
> > Robert Treat
> >
> > On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 14:00, Andreas Grabmüller wrote:
> > > If you mean me, my name is Andreas :)
> > >
> > > However, I must confess I didn't do anything on the code since we started the discussion on the Layout/XHTML/CSS (I think that was mid November). This also means the old todo list I posted that time should be even current. I currently can't find it, does anyone have it archived?
> > >
> > > The last summary was the code is working (well, it was, it may need some updates now as the main code has been changed) and we now need the new layout before we can import the pages...
> > >
> > > I'm sorry I wasn't very active on this list the last months (but I'm of course reading it), I'm very busy (and everytime one project ends I get two new projects :( so I don't think I can spend much time on this for the next two to three months, I'm sorry).
> > >
> > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen
> > > Andreas Grabmüller
> > >
> > > ----- Original-Nachricht -----
> > > Von: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy(at)postgresql(dot)org>
> > > An: Alexey Borzov <borz_off(at)cs(dot)msu(dot)su>
> > > CC: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy(at)postgresql(dot)org>, pgsql-www(at)postgresql(dot)org
> > > Datum: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 07:21 PM
> > > Betreff: [pgsql-www] A briefing is needed...
> > >
> > > > On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi!
> > > > >
> > > > > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >>1) Is anyone actively working on website right now? I mean not "is a
> > > > > >>member of website team", but actively working?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>From my understanding, any work on the web site is on hold until
> > > > > > Adrian(sp?) finishes the work he's doing on internationalization ...
> > > > >
> > > > > From my understanding, his work is in the portal directory of pgweb,
> > > > > and the last commit there was 2 months ago...
> > > >
> > > > that doesn't mean anything if he is working on his home computer, but, I
> > > > think that Adrian just pop'd up recently wondering what was outstanding,
> > > > so I think he's looking for feedback on what he's done ...
> > > >
> > > > right now, I think Adrian might be on Chapter 2, while the rest of us
> > > > still think we're on Chapter 1 ... the fun part of collaborative work,
> > > > making sure everyone knows where everyone else is sitting :)
> > > >
> > > > ----
> > > > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> > > > Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
> > > >
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