Re: Lurking Wanna Be

Greetings All...

I've been a lurker for sometime. I was wondering if there was a tool or
tool component that is used to populate a display screen for layout of
accessable table columns which can generate the code to extract the
information from a dataset for presentation to the enduser?

Regards,

Hal Davison
Sarasota, Florida

you want a report generator? or a query designer or just something to
see the schema?
glenn
On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 08:02 -0400, Hal Davison wrote:
> Greetings All...
>
> I've been a lurker for sometime. I was wondering if there was a tool or
> tool component that is used to populate a display screen for layout of
> accessable table columns which can generate the code to extract the
> information from a dataset for presentation to the enduser?
>
> Regards,
>
> Hal Davison
> Sarasota, Florida
>
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
> choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
> match

One of the biggest problems I have is presenting the data to the user on
their display. Fitting the colums, labels, tooltip thingies then
intergrating the display to extract the selected data from a configured
dataset to associate the column data to a specific presentation field.

Maybe it's fun for some but the development code for the user
presentation is a bit of a headache, at least for me.

Hal Davison
Sasasota, Florida

On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 08:36, Glenn Davy wrote:
> you want a report generator? or a query designer or just something to
> see the schema?
> glenn
> On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 08:02 -0400, Hal Davison wrote:
> > Greetings All...
> >
> > I've been a lurker for sometime. I was wondering if there was a tool or
> > tool component that is used to populate a display screen for layout of
> > accessable table columns which can generate the code to extract the
> > information from a dataset for presentation to the enduser?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Hal Davison
> > Sarasota, Florida
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
> > choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
> > match
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
>
> http://archives.postgresql.org

what are you using to do it? what platform do you need to do it on?

On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 08:50 -0400, Hal Davison wrote:
> One of the biggest problems I have is presenting the data to the user on
> their display. Fitting the colums, labels, tooltip thingies then
> intergrating the display to extract the selected data from a configured
> dataset to associate the column data to a specific presentation field.
>
> Maybe it's fun for some but the development code for the user
> presentation is a bit of a headache, at least for me.
>
> Hal Davison
> Sasasota, Florida
>
>
> On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 08:36, Glenn Davy wrote:
> > you want a report generator? or a query designer or just something to
> > see the schema?
> > glenn
> > On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 08:02 -0400, Hal Davison wrote:
> > > Greetings All...
> > >
> > > I've been a lurker for sometime. I was wondering if there was a tool or
> > > tool component that is used to populate a display screen for layout of
> > > accessable table columns which can generate the code to extract the
> > > information from a dataset for presentation to the enduser?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Hal Davison
> > > Sarasota, Florida
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > > TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
> > > choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
> > > match
> >
> > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
> >
> > http://archives.postgresql.org
>

On 7/26/06 8:50 AM, "Hal Davison" <herbie(at)faams(dot)net> wrote:

> One of the biggest problems I have is presenting the data to the user on
> their display. Fitting the colums, labels, tooltip thingies then
> intergrating the display to extract the selected data from a configured
> dataset to associate the column data to a specific presentation field.
>
> Maybe it's fun for some but the development code for the user
> presentation is a bit of a headache, at least for me.

Hal,

You are really going to have to be more specific. What OS are you on? What
language/environment are you trying to use? Web-based or standalone
application? Do you have just three in-house users or thousands of off-site
users? Give an CONCRETE example of what you are trying to do.

Sean

Sean,

Being specific..

The PostgreSQL is running on Linux.

The client/users will connect from their bloated Intel PCs.

With an HTML browser they could connect from anywhere and any box if
that option were available.

I'm looking for a tool or toolset that will enable one to 'PAINT' the
screen, extract information from one or more datasets, display the
information. Give the user some interaction and send the changed
information back to the db server.

Hal Davison
Sarasota, Florida

On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 09:24, Sean Davis wrote:
>
> On 7/26/06 8:50 AM, "Hal Davison" <herbie(at)faams(dot)net> wrote:
>
> > One of the biggest problems I have is presenting the data to the user on
> > their display. Fitting the colums, labels, tooltip thingies then
> > intergrating the display to extract the selected data from a configured
> > dataset to associate the column data to a specific presentation field.
> >
> > Maybe it's fun for some but the development code for the user
> > presentation is a bit of a headache, at least for me.
>
> Hal,
>
> You are really going to have to be more specific. What OS are you on? What
> language/environment are you trying to use? Web-based or standalone
> application? Do you have just three in-house users or thousands of off-site
> users? Give an CONCRETE example of what you are trying to do.
>
> Sean

On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 19:47 -0400, Hal Davison wrote:
> Sean,
>
> Being specific..
>
> The PostgreSQL is running on Linux.
>
> The client/users will connect from their bloated Intel PCs.
>
By bloaded Intel PC's Im guessing you mean "Windows"? All my linux is
on intel also.

maybe the question your trying to ask is what screen/client side tools
does postgres come with - and the answer in this sense is none. There is
a product you can navigate to from the pg site call pgadmin which will
let you visually access the data, but i dont think its what you're after

> With an HTML browser they could connect from anywhere and any box if
> that option were available.
>
so if you want to go this way you could a web application framework like
turbogears, django or ruby on rails - google for these - theres no
shortage of detail out there inlucding screen casts etc etc

> I'm looking for a tool or toolset that will enable one to 'PAINT' the
> screen, extract information from one or more datasets, display the
> information. Give the user some interaction and send the changed
> information back to the db server.
>
'Paint' implies a very visual process - perhaps you could check dabo
(http://www.dabodev.com) again have a look at their screen casts and see
if it does what you want.

there are also things like delphi which snuggles up nicely to postgres,
and perhaps you can use vb.net - dont know about that, or even old
fashion vb?

you can alsothere are also things like delphi which snuggles up nicely
to postgres, and perhaps you can use vb.net - dont know about that, or
even old fashion vb? use microsoft access which with odbc and I
understand many people do that - and if these other options sound
daunting, its possibly your shortest root with smallest learning curve
(except maybe dabo?)

do you/are you willing to program at all? all of these (even access)
will involve -some- programing.

other people, what else is out there in windows desktop land (esp that
may not involve programing)? it would make an interesting survey to hear
what other people are using for this type of application and what is and
isnt effective.

glenn

> Hal Davison
> Sarasota, Florida
>
> On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 09:24, Sean Davis wrote:
> >
> > On 7/26/06 8:50 AM, "Hal Davison" <herbie(at)faams(dot)net> wrote:
> >
> > > One of the biggest problems I have is presenting the data to the user on
> > > their display. Fitting the colums, labels, tooltip thingies then
> > > intergrating the display to extract the selected data from a configured
> > > dataset to associate the column data to a specific presentation field.
> > >
> > > Maybe it's fun for some but the development code for the user
> > > presentation is a bit of a headache, at least for me.
> >
> > Hal,
> >
> > You are really going to have to be more specific. What OS are you on? What
> > language/environment are you trying to use? Web-based or standalone
> > application? Do you have just three in-house users or thousands of off-site
> > users? Give an CONCRETE example of what you are trying to do.
> >
> > Sean
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend

Hal Davison wrote:
> Sean,
>
> Being specific..
>
> The PostgreSQL is running on Linux.
>
> The client/users will connect from their bloated Intel PCs.
>
> With an HTML browser they could connect from anywhere and any box if
> that option were available.
>
> I'm looking for a tool or toolset that will enable one to 'PAINT' the
> screen, extract information from one or more datasets, display the
> information. Give the user some interaction and send the changed
> information back to the db server.

Hal,

If you are pretty adept at programming in perl, python, java, ruby, or
php, then you can certainly do some reading on using web frameworks or
writing CGI scripts. However, from the tone of your question, I'm
guessing that isn't the case and than you would rather stay away from
programming. If that is the case, I would still suggest pgAdminIII (not
browser-based, but you can connect from anywhere that isn't firewalled.
If you want to go with a browser-based solution, install phppgadmin.

Sean

I am privy to one commercial product that is under
development....but they still have a few months of
work before release. I'm pretty sure they plan on
announcing somewhere on this site (advertising,
press release, etc) before the end of the year.

----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn Davy <glenn(at)tangelosoftware(dot)net>
Date: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:38 pm
Subject: Re: [NOVICE] Lurking Wanna Be
To: Hal Davison <herbie(at)faams(dot)net>
Cc: Sean Davis <sdavis2(at)mail(dot)nih(dot)gov>,
glenn(at)tangelosoftware(dot)com(dot)au, pgsql-novice
<pgsql-novice(at)postgresql(dot)org>

> On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 19:47 -0400, Hal Davison wrote:
> > Sean,
> >
> > Being specific..
> >
> > The PostgreSQL is running on Linux.
> >
> > The client/users will connect from their bloated
Intel PCs.
> >
> By bloaded Intel PC's Im guessing you mean
"Windows"? All my linux is
> on intel also.
>
> maybe the question your trying to ask is what
screen/client side tools
> does postgres come with - and the answer in this
sense is none.
> There is
> a product you can navigate to from the pg site
call pgadmin which will
> let you visually access the data, but i dont think
its what you're
> after
> > With an HTML browser they could connect from
anywhere and any box if
> > that option were available.
> >
> so if you want to go this way you could a web
application framework
> liketurbogears, django or ruby on rails - google
for these - theres no
> shortage of detail out there inlucding screen
casts etc etc
>
> > I'm looking for a tool or toolset that will
enable one to 'PAINT'
> the> screen, extract information from one or more
datasets, display
> the> information. Give the user some interaction
and send the changed
> > information back to the db server.
> >
> 'Paint' implies a very visual process - perhaps
you could check dabo
> (http://www.dabodev.com) again have a look at
their screen casts
> and see
> if it does what you want.
>
> there are also things like delphi which snuggles
up nicely to
> postgres,and perhaps you can use vb.net - dont
know about that, or
> even old
> fashion vb?
>
> you can alsothere are also things like delphi
which snuggles up nicely
> to postgres, and perhaps you can use vb.net - dont
know about that, or
> even old fashion vb? use microsoft access which
with odbc and I
> understand many people do that - and if these
other options sound
> daunting, its possibly your shortest root with
smallest learning curve
> (except maybe dabo?)
>
> do you/are you willing to program at all? all of
these (even access)
> will involve -some- programing.
>
> other people, what else is out there in windows
desktop land (esp that
> may not involve programing)? it would make an
interesting survey to
> hearwhat other people are using for this type of
application and
> what is and
> isnt effective.
>
> glenn
>
>
>
> > Hal Davison
> > Sarasota, Florida
> >
> > On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 09:24, Sean Davis wrote:
> > >
> > > On 7/26/06 8:50 AM, "Hal Davison"
<herbie(at)faams(dot)net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > One of the biggest problems I have is
presenting the data to
> the user on
> > > > their display. Fitting the colums, labels,
tooltip thingies then
> > > > intergrating the display to extract the
selected data from a
> configured> > > dataset to associate the column
data to a specific
> presentation field.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe it's fun for some but the development
code for the user
> > > > presentation is a bit of a headache, at
least for me.
> > >
> > > Hal,
> > >
> > > You are really going to have to be more
specific. What OS are
> you on? What
> > > language/environment are you trying to use?
Web-based or
> standalone> > application? Do you have just three
in-house users
> or thousands of off-site
> > > users? Give an CONCRETE example of what you
are trying to do.
> > >
> > > Sean
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------(end of
broadcast)---------------------
> ------
> > TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
>
> ---------------------------(end of
broadcast)-----------------------
> ----
> TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
>

> Sean,
>
> Being specific..
>
> The PostgreSQL is running on Linux.
>
> The client/users will connect from their bloated
> Intel PCs.
>
> With an HTML browser they could connect from
> anywhere and any box if
> that option were available.
>
> I'm looking for a tool or toolset that will enable
> one to 'PAINT' the
> screen, extract information from one or more
> datasets, display the
> information. Give the user some interaction and send
> the changed
> information back to the db server.
>
> Hal Davison
> Sarasota, Florida

Hal, in short, you want a programmed interface without
the hassle of programming, is that about it? If you
find out how to do that, *let me know*! -lol-

seriously, there are many ways to do this, depending
on your objective. Someone mentioned Ruby on Rails -
if you follow its conventions, it *will*
auto-magically create forms for you to enter, delete
and update information. However, this its initial
presentation is very basic. Non technical users would
probably find a way to bash it and evil users may well
find a way to destroy it.

You would have to learn about Ruby and Rails - which
isn't trivial. I'm going through the process now.

At present, I've been using PHP, HTML, CSS, ADODB db
abstraction layer and Manuel Lemos' forms class to get
my interfaces up and running.

It hasn't been a trivial learning curve, either. It
has taken some dedication - and thank goodness for all
the good people in this and other mailing lists and
forums!

if you don't want to program the interface yourself,
you could always hire someone to do it. Even then, it
would help to know a little bit about the technology
b/c programming styles vary drammatically and it can
have serious consequences for your app at some point
in the future.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Glenn Davy wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 19:47 -0400, Hal Davison wrote:
>
>>Sean,
>>
>>Being specific..
>>
>>The PostgreSQL is running on Linux.
>>
>>The client/users will connect from their bloated Intel PCs.
>>
>
> By bloaded Intel PC's Im guessing you mean "Windows"? All my linux is
> on intel also.
>
> maybe the question your trying to ask is what screen/client side tools
> does postgres come with - and the answer in this sense is none. There is
> a product you can navigate to from the pg site call pgadmin which will
> let you visually access the data, but i dont think its what you're after
>
>
>>With an HTML browser they could connect from anywhere and any box if
>>that option were available.
>>
>
> so if you want to go this way you could a web application framework like
> turbogears, django or ruby on rails - google for these - theres no
> shortage of detail out there inlucding screen casts etc etc
>
>
>>I'm looking for a tool or toolset that will enable one to 'PAINT' the
>>screen, extract information from one or more datasets, display the
>>information. Give the user some interaction and send the changed
>>information back to the db server.
>>
>
> 'Paint' implies a very visual process - perhaps you could check dabo
> (http://www.dabodev.com) again have a look at their screen casts and see
> if it does what you want.
>
> there are also things like delphi which snuggles up nicely to postgres,
> and perhaps you can use vb.net - dont know about that, or even old
> fashion vb?
>
> you can alsothere are also things like delphi which snuggles up nicely
> to postgres, and perhaps you can use vb.net - dont know about that, or
> even old fashion vb? use microsoft access which with odbc and I
> understand many people do that - and if these other options sound
> daunting, its possibly your shortest root with smallest learning curve
> (except maybe dabo?)
>
> do you/are you willing to program at all? all of these (even access)
> will involve -some- programing.
>
> other people, what else is out there in windows desktop land (esp that
> may not involve programing)? it would make an interesting survey to hear
> what other people are using for this type of application and what is and
> isnt effective.
>
> glenn

We built an interface that allowed data display and modification using
vb. Nice project and it turned out pretty well.

--

Kind Regards,
Keith

On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 23:53, operationsengineer1(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:
> > Sean,
> >
> > Being specific..
> >
> > The PostgreSQL is running on Linux.
> >
> > The client/users will connect from their bloated
> > Intel PCs.
> >
> > With an HTML browser they could connect from
> > anywhere and any box if
> > that option were available.
> >
> > I'm looking for a tool or toolset that will enable
> > one to 'PAINT' the
> > screen, extract information from one or more
> > datasets, display the
> > information. Give the user some interaction and send
> > the changed
> > information back to the db server.
> >
> > Hal Davison
> > Sarasota, Florida
>
> Hal, in short, you want a programmed interface without
> the hassle of programming, is that about it? If you
> find out how to do that, *let me know*! -lol-
>
> seriously, there are many ways to do this, depending
> on your objective. Someone mentioned Ruby on Rails -
> if you follow its conventions, it *will*
> auto-magically create forms for you to enter, delete
> and update information. However, this its initial
> presentation is very basic. Non technical users would
> probably find a way to bash it and evil users may well
> find a way to destroy it.
>
> You would have to learn about Ruby and Rails - which
> isn't trivial. I'm going through the process now.
>
> At present, I've been using PHP, HTML, CSS, ADODB db
> abstraction layer and Manuel Lemos' forms class to get
> my interfaces up and running.
>
> It hasn't been a trivial learning curve, either. It
> has taken some dedication - and thank goodness for all
> the good people in this and other mailing lists and
> forums!
>
> if you don't want to program the interface yourself,
> you could always hire someone to do it. Even then, it
> would help to know a little bit about the technology
> b/c programming styles vary drammatically and it can
> have serious consequences for your app at some point
> in the future.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

I don't mind the programming. This application has a lot of validation
and business logic to contend with.

I'm just not looking forward to the ardious task of building by hand,
checking and testing 1000+ user data entry/display forms then extracting
and updating the record/dataset with any potential user initiated
changes to the data.

Just thought there weould be something out in GUI that could replace the
earthy tasting perl, php...yada yada yada.

Honestly, I appreciate the discussion on this issue.

Hal Davison
Davison Consulting

>I don't mind the programming. This application has a lot of validation
>and business logic to contend with.

>I'm just not looking forward to the ardious task of building by hand,
>checking and testing 1000+ user data entry/display forms then extracting
>and updating the record/dataset

If that's the case have a look at www.dabodev.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Hal Davison [mailto:herbie(at)faams(dot)net]
Sent: Friday, 28 July 2006 6:42 PM
To: operationsengineer1(at)yahoo(dot)com
Cc: Sean Davis; glenn(at)tangelosoftware(dot)com(dot)au; pgsql-novice
Subject: Re: [NOVICE] Lurking Wanna Be

On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 23:53, operationsengineer1(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:
> > Sean,
> >
> > Being specific..
> >
> > The PostgreSQL is running on Linux.
> >
> > The client/users will connect from their bloated
> > Intel PCs.
> >
> > With an HTML browser they could connect from
> > anywhere and any box if
> > that option were available.
> >
> > I'm looking for a tool or toolset that will enable
> > one to 'PAINT' the
> > screen, extract information from one or more
> > datasets, display the
> > information. Give the user some interaction and send
> > the changed
> > information back to the db server.
> >
> > Hal Davison
> > Sarasota, Florida
>
> Hal, in short, you want a programmed interface without
> the hassle of programming, is that about it? If you
> find out how to do that, *let me know*! -lol-
>
> seriously, there are many ways to do this, depending
> on your objective. Someone mentioned Ruby on Rails -
> if you follow its conventions, it *will*
> auto-magically create forms for you to enter, delete
> and update information. However, this its initial
> presentation is very basic. Non technical users would
> probably find a way to bash it and evil users may well
> find a way to destroy it.
>
> You would have to learn about Ruby and Rails - which
> isn't trivial. I'm going through the process now.
>
> At present, I've been using PHP, HTML, CSS, ADODB db
> abstraction layer and Manuel Lemos' forms class to get
> my interfaces up and running.
>
> It hasn't been a trivial learning curve, either. It
> has taken some dedication - and thank goodness for all
> the good people in this and other mailing lists and
> forums!
>
> if you don't want to program the interface yourself,
> you could always hire someone to do it. Even then, it
> would help to know a little bit about the technology
> b/c programming styles vary drammatically and it can
> have serious consequences for your app at some point
> in the future.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

with any potential user initiated
changes to the data.

Just thought there weould be something out in GUI that could replace the
earthy tasting perl, php...yada yada yada.

Honestly, I appreciate the discussion on this issue.

Hal Davison
Davison Consulting

> I don't mind the programming. This application has a
> lot of validation
> and business logic to contend with.
>
> I'm just not looking forward to the ardious task of
> building by hand,
> checking and testing 1000+ user data entry/display
> forms then extracting
> and updating the record/dataset with any potential
> user initiated
> changes to the data.
>
> Just thought there weould be something out in GUI
> that could replace the
> earthy tasting perl, php...yada yada yada.
>
> Honestly, I appreciate the discussion on this issue.
>
> Hal Davison
> Davison Consulting

Hal, if it is database centric - iow, all the forms
tie into a db, then ruby on rails may well work for
you. it will enable you to get the forms up
relatively quickly (1,000 forms is an *awful* lot of
forms!) and then you can add features over time.

again, i don't see 1,000 of anything that is as
detailed as this being quick or easy. 1,000 is a
*huge* number.

i've used a forms class to help with validation - and
it is a great help. it is on phpclassed.org - manuel
Lemos is the author. it isn't a trivial class, though
= it has tons of functionality.

implementing a form, once you know how to use it,
isn't too difficult. i could send you a simple form
example using php, the forms class and adodb to
interact with the db, if you are interested.
implementing 1,000 forms is a different story.

since you know your app the best, evaluate all the
options that people give - from vb, php, ror to more
specialized apps.

with a 1,000 forms, though, i don't think anyone will
be able to consider this kind of work trivial,
regardless of what you choose to use.

good luck.

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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