Re: PostgreSQL slammed by PHP creator

Hi all,

Any response to this:
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3631831

From the FA:

One performance enhancement that Lerdorf suggested based on code analysis was to use MySQL instead of PostgreSQL for the database.

"If you can fit your problem into what MySQL can handle it's very fast," Lerdorf said. "You can gain quite a bit of performance."

For the items that MySQL doesn't handle as well as PostgreSQL, Lerdorf noted that some features can be emulated in PHP itself, and you still end up with a net performance boost.

-arturo

Arturo Perez wrote:

> Any response to this:
> http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3631831

Oh please! Can we skip this one?
Maybe on the advocacy groups, not on [GENERAL], pleeeeeze!

thanks,
bkw

On Sep 14, 2006, at 11:27 , Arturo Perez wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Any response to this:
> http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3631831
>
> From the FA:
>
> One performance enhancement that Lerdorf suggested based on code
> analysis was to use MySQL instead of PostgreSQL for the database.
>
> "If you can fit your problem into what MySQL can handle it's very
> fast," Lerdorf said. "You can gain quite a bit of performance."
>
> For the items that MySQL doesn't handle as well as PostgreSQL,
> Lerdorf noted that some features can be emulated in PHP itself, and
> you still end up with a net performance boost.

I wasn't able to find anything the "article" worth discussing. If you
give up A, C, I, and D, of course you get better performance- just
like you can get better performance from a wheel-less Yugo if you
slide it down a luge track.

-M

AgentM wrote:

>
> On Sep 14, 2006, at 11:27 , Arturo Perez wrote:
>
>>
>> One performance enhancement that Lerdorf suggested based on code
>> analysis was to use MySQL instead of PostgreSQL for the database.
>
> ...If you give up A, C, I, and D, of course you get better
> performance- just like you can get better performance from a
> wheel-less Yugo if you slide it down a luge track.

ROTFL. That has got to go down as a classic quotation.

Arturo Perez wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Any response to this:
> http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3631831
>
> From the FA:
>
> One performance enhancement that Lerdorf suggested based on code analysis was to use MySQL instead of PostgreSQL for the database.
>
> "If you can fit your problem into what MySQL can handle it's very fast," Lerdorf said. "You can gain quite a bit of performance."
>
> For the items that MySQL doesn't handle as well as PostgreSQL, Lerdorf noted that some features can be emulated in PHP itself, and you still end up with a net performance boost.
>

Considering the quality piece of software that PHP is, I don't hold much
weight to his comment.

However, he does carry some umpf in certain circles. Perhaps we should
prove him wrong?

Joshua D. Drake

> -arturo
>
>

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
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http://www.commandprompt.com/

Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> However, he does carry some umpf in certain circles. Perhaps we should
> prove him wrong?

I take it you mean "oomph"?

Main Entry: oomph
Pronunciation: 'um(p)f
Function: noun
Etymology: imitative of a sound made under exertion
1 : personal charm or magnetism : GLAMOUR
2 : SEX APPEAL
3 : PUNCH, VITALITY

--
Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.

Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
>> However, he does carry some umpf in certain circles. Perhaps we should
>> prove him wrong?
>
> I take it you mean "oomph"?

Yeah probably :)

>
> Main Entry: oomph
> Pronunciation: 'um(p)f
> Function: noun
> Etymology: imitative of a sound made under exertion
> 1 : personal charm or magnetism : GLAMOUR
> 2 : SEX APPEAL
> 3 : PUNCH, VITALITY
>

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/

> I wasn't able to find anything the "article" worth discussing. If you
> give up A, C, I, and D, of course you get better performance- just like
> you can get better performance from a wheel-less Yugo if you slide it
> down a luge track.

I don't think a Yugo would give you better performance no matter what
you do ;)

>
> -M
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
>

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/

* Arturo Perez (aperez(at)hayesinc(dot)com) wrote:
> Any response to this:
> http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3631831

Turn fsync off and try again. Don't expect your data to stay consistant
tho.

Enjoy,

Stephen

pgsql-general-owner(at)postgresql(dot)org wrote on 15/09/2006 04:40:04 a.m.:

>
> > I wasn't able to find anything the "article" worth discussing. If you
> > give up A, C, I, and D, of course you get better performance- just
like
> > you can get better performance from a wheel-less Yugo if you slide it
> > down a luge track.
>
> I don't think a Yugo would give you better performance no matter what
> you do ;)

I found in my youth that a mini slides better on it roof than on it's
wheels.

As a comment on his points though, isn't it better to use the right tool
for the job rather than try to force one tool to do everything? I've
never used a hammer to put in a screw.

I don't use what is basically a web page generator to improve the
performance of my database.

>
> >
> > -M
> >
> > ---------------------------(end of
broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
> >
> > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
> >
>
>
> --
>
> === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
> Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
> Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
> http://www.commandprompt.com/
>
>
>
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> TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq

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Simon_Kelly(at)moh(dot)govt(dot)nz wrote:
> pgsql-general-owner(at)postgresql(dot)org wrote on 15/09/2006 04:40:04 a.m.:
>
>>> I wasn't able to find anything the "article" worth discussing. If you
>>> give up A, C, I, and D, of course you get better performance- just
> like
>>> you can get better performance from a wheel-less Yugo if you slide it
>>> down a luge track.
>> I don't think a Yugo would give you better performance no matter what
>> you do ;)
>
> I found in my youth that a mini slides better on it roof than on it's
> wheels.

I can top that :). I hit a telephone pole at 135MPH in a 66 Cuda :)
If it hadn't been for the gravel around that corner, I would have beat
the other car too.

Joshua D. Drake

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/

And yet this man is smart enough not to run MySQL on Windows. Methinks
this says something....

--
Brandon Aiken
CS/IT Systems Engineer

-----Original Message-----
From: pgsql-general-owner(at)postgresql(dot)org
[mailto:pgsql-general-owner(at)postgresql(dot)org] On Behalf Of Joshua D. Drake
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 5:16 PM
To: Simon_Kelly(at)moh(dot)govt(dot)nz
Cc: PostgreSQL General ML
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] PostgreSQL slammed by PHP creator

Simon_Kelly(at)moh(dot)govt(dot)nz wrote:
> pgsql-general-owner(at)postgresql(dot)org wrote on 15/09/2006 04:40:04 a.m.:
>
>>> I wasn't able to find anything the "article" worth discussing. If
you
>>> give up A, C, I, and D, of course you get better performance- just
> like
>>> you can get better performance from a wheel-less Yugo if you slide
it
>>> down a luge track.
>> I don't think a Yugo would give you better performance no matter what

>> you do ;)
>
> I found in my youth that a mini slides better on it roof than on it's
> wheels.

I can top that :). I hit a telephone pole at 135MPH in a 66 Cuda :)
If it hadn't been for the gravel around that corner, I would have beat
the other car too.

Joshua D. Drake

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?

http://archives.postgresql.org

Brandon Aiken wrote:
> And yet this man is smart enough not to run MySQL on Windows. Methinks
> this says something....

Heh..

Joshua D. Drake

>
> --
> Brandon Aiken
> CS/IT Systems Engineer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pgsql-general-owner(at)postgresql(dot)org
> [mailto:pgsql-general-owner(at)postgresql(dot)org] On Behalf Of Joshua D. Drake
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 5:16 PM
> To: Simon_Kelly(at)moh(dot)govt(dot)nz
> Cc: PostgreSQL General ML
> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] PostgreSQL slammed by PHP creator
>
> Simon_Kelly(at)moh(dot)govt(dot)nz wrote:
>> pgsql-general-owner(at)postgresql(dot)org wrote on 15/09/2006 04:40:04 a.m.:
>>
>>>> I wasn't able to find anything the "article" worth discussing. If
> you
>>>> give up A, C, I, and D, of course you get better performance- just
>> like
>>>> you can get better performance from a wheel-less Yugo if you slide
> it
>>>> down a luge track.
>>> I don't think a Yugo would give you better performance no matter what
>
>>> you do ;)
>> I found in my youth that a mini slides better on it roof than on it's
>> wheels.
>
> I can top that :). I hit a telephone pole at 135MPH in a 66 Cuda :)
> If it hadn't been for the gravel around that corner, I would have beat
> the other car too.
>
> Joshua D. Drake
>
>

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/

On Thu, 2006-09-14 at 11:40, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > I wasn't able to find anything the "article" worth discussing. If you
> > give up A, C, I, and D, of course you get better performance- just like
> > you can get better performance from a wheel-less Yugo if you slide it
> > down a luge track.
>
> I don't think a Yugo would give you better performance no matter what
> you do ;)
>
> >

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCkOpfLiRcA

mini on a ski jump.

> > I found in my youth that a mini slides better on it roof than on it's
> > wheels.
>
> I can top that :). I hit a telephone pole at 135MPH in a 66 Cuda :)
> If it hadn't been for the gravel around that corner, I would have beat
> the other car too.

I used to dream of hitting 70mph in the mini. I also had nightmares about
hitting other things in the mini ....

and on one memorable occation the nightmares came true and I hit the back
of my mates LandRover.

Guess who came off worst :o)

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Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Simon_Kelly(at)moh(dot)govt(dot)nz wrote:
>> pgsql-general-owner(at)postgresql(dot)org wrote on 15/09/2006 04:40:04 a.m.:
>>
>>>> I wasn't able to find anything the "article" worth discussing. If
>>>> you give up A, C, I, and D, of course you get better performance- just
>> like
>>>> you can get better performance from a wheel-less Yugo if you slide
>>>> it down a luge track.
>>> I don't think a Yugo would give you better performance no matter what
>>> you do ;)
>>
>> I found in my youth that a mini slides better on it roof than on it's
>> wheels.
>
> I can top that :). I hit a telephone pole at 135MPH in a 66 Cuda :)
> If it hadn't been for the gravel around that corner, I would have beat
> the other car too.

' (a tear for your 66 cuda...)

--
Until later, Geoffrey

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
- Benjamin Franklin

>>
>> I can top that :). I hit a telephone pole at 135MPH in a 66 Cuda :)
>> If it hadn't been for the gravel around that corner, I would have beat
>> the other car too.
>
> ' (a tear for your 66 cuda...)

Hell I cried more then a tear. The cop felt so bad for me, he didn't
even ticket me... All white, red interior... man I loved that car. It
was the first car that *I* bought with *my* money and I *owned* it. No
bank :)

Note that this was a very long time ago :)

Joshua D. Drake

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>>
>>> I can top that :). I hit a telephone pole at 135MPH in a 66 Cuda :)
>>> If it hadn't been for the gravel around that corner, I would have
>>> beat the other car too.
>>
>> ' (a tear for your 66 cuda...)
>
> Hell I cried more then a tear. The cop felt so bad for me, he didn't
> even ticket me... All white, red interior... man I loved that car. It
> was the first car that *I* bought with *my* money and I *owned* it. No
> bank :)
>
> Note that this was a very long time ago :)

We are showing our age...

--
Until later, Geoffrey

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
- Benjamin Franklin

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> >>
> >>I can top that :). I hit a telephone pole at 135MPH in a 66 Cuda :)
> >>If it hadn't been for the gravel around that corner, I would have beat
> >>the other car too.
> >
> >' (a tear for your 66 cuda...)
>
> Hell I cried more then a tear. The cop felt so bad for me, he didn't
> even ticket me... All white, red interior... man I loved that car. It
> was the first car that *I* bought with *my* money and I *owned* it. No
> bank :)

Are we talking about this one?
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/plymouth-cuda/plymouth-cuda.shtml

> Note that this was a very long time ago :)

I hope it wasn't on 1966 ...

--
Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > >>
> > >>I can top that :). I hit a telephone pole at 135MPH in a 66 Cuda :)
> > >>If it hadn't been for the gravel around that corner, I would have beat
> > >>the other car too.
> > >
> > >' (a tear for your 66 cuda...)
> >
> > Hell I cried more then a tear. The cop felt so bad for me, he didn't
> > even ticket me... All white, red interior... man I loved that car. It
> > was the first car that *I* bought with *my* money and I *owned* it. No
> > bank :)
>
> Are we talking about this one?
> http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/plymouth-cuda/plymouth-cuda.shtml
>
> > Note that this was a very long time ago :)
>
> I hope it wasn't on 1966 ...

I am not going to ask how you got to 135MPH.

--
Bruce Momjian bruce(at)momjian(dot)us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Alvaro Herrera wrote:
>> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>>>> I can top that :). I hit a telephone pole at 135MPH in a 66 Cuda :)
>>>>> If it hadn't been for the gravel around that corner, I would have beat
>>>>> the other car too.
>>>> ' (a tear for your 66 cuda...)
>>> Hell I cried more then a tear. The cop felt so bad for me, he didn't
>>> even ticket me... All white, red interior... man I loved that car. It
>>> was the first car that *I* bought with *my* money and I *owned* it. No
>>> bank :)
>> Are we talking about this one?
>> http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/plymouth-cuda/plymouth-cuda.shtml
>>
>>> Note that this was a very long time ago :)
>> I hope it wasn't on 1966 ...
>
> I am not going to ask how you got to 135MPH.

I don't think you'd have any problem doing 135mph in a '66 Cuda.

--
Until later, Geoffrey

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
- Benjamin Franklin

Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>>> I can top that :). I hit a telephone pole at 135MPH in a 66 Cuda :)
>>>> If it hadn't been for the gravel around that corner, I would have beat
>>>> the other car too.
>>> ' (a tear for your 66 cuda...)
>> Hell I cried more then a tear. The cop felt so bad for me, he didn't
>> even ticket me... All white, red interior... man I loved that car. It
>> was the first car that *I* bought with *my* money and I *owned* it. No
>> bank :)
>
> Are we talking about this one?
> http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/plymouth-cuda/plymouth-cuda.shtml

No that is the child of mine... and actually the one linked above is
worth a great deal of money :) No mine was this one:

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/plymouth-cuda/plymouth-cuda-history.shtml

Scroll down to 1966. Mine was slightly modified.

>
>> Note that this was a very long time ago :)
>
> I hope it wasn't on 1966 ...
>

Heh no. I wasn't even born in 1966.

Joshua D. Drake

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/

>>> bank :)
>> Are we talking about this one?
>> http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/plymouth-cuda/plymouth-cuda.shtml
>>
>>> Note that this was a very long time ago :)
>> I hope it wasn't on 1966 ...
>
> I am not going to ask how you got to 135MPH.

Oh that is easy, you just press on the gas and watch the car beside you
disappear :). Of course that is when you notice you are running out of
highway and quickly approaching downtown portland. Then you hit the
brakes hard trying to make the corner, hit gravel, have the rear brakes
lock, spin, and hit a telephone pole.

Joshua D. Drake

>

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/

On Sep 14, 2006, at 21:25 , Bruce Momjian wrote:

>
> I am not going to ask how you got to 135MPH.

Obviously he was running MySQL under the hood.

-M

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006, AgentM wrote:

> Obviously he was running MySQL under the hood.

Ta-da! We have a winner!

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D. | The Environmental Permitting
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.(TM) | Accelerator
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com> Voice: 503-667-4517 Fax: 503-667-8863

On 09/14/06 21:32, AgentM wrote:
>
> On Sep 14, 2006, at 21:25 , Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
>>
>> I am not going to ask how you got to 135MPH.
>
> Obviously he was running MySQL under the hood.

No wonder he spun out and crashed into a telephone poll...

--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Is "common sense" really valid?
For example, it is "common sense" to white-power racists that
whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins
are mud people.
However, that "common sense" is obviously wrong.

On Fri, 2006-09-15 at 00:21 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 09/14/06 21:32, AgentM wrote:
> >
> > On Sep 14, 2006, at 21:25 , Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I am not going to ask how you got to 135MPH.
> >
> > Obviously he was running MySQL under the hood.
>
> No wonder he spun out and crashed into a telephone poll...

There's that damn missing fsync again.

"Unsafe at any speed". -- Ralph Nader on Hemi SQL without fsync.

Andy

On Thursday 14. September 2006 17:27, Arturo Perez wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Any response to this:
>http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3631831

I submitted the story to Slashdot:
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/15/1412249

In the /. discussion, Rasmus Lerdorf himself claims that he was grossly
misquoted by the journalist.
--
Leif Biberg Kristensen | Registered Linux User #338009
http://solumslekt.org/ | Cruising with Gentoo/KDE

On Thursday 14 September 2006 12:19, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Arturo Perez wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Any response to this:
> > http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3631831
> >

Well first, your subject line is very incendiary and not necessary... I expect
that kind of thing from slashdot, but it isn't needed here. Rasmus did
not "slam" postgres... he ran some tests, look at the output, and then
explained his conclusions. This seems perfectly reasonable to me and I think
trying to drum up animosity over it is something we should be cracking back
on in the postgresql community... all IMHO.

That said, in case anyone needs it, here is a benchmark showing postgresql
scalability vs mysql. interestingly enough it isnt really a database
benchmark, whether this adds or detracts from it's creditability is up to
you... http://tweakers.net/reviews/638/4

> > From the FA:
> >
> > One performance enhancement that Lerdorf suggested based on code analysis
> > was to use MySQL instead of PostgreSQL for the database.
> >
> > "If you can fit your problem into what MySQL can handle it's very fast,"
> > Lerdorf said. "You can gain quite a bit of performance."
> >
> > For the items that MySQL doesn't handle as well as PostgreSQL, Lerdorf
> > noted that some features can be emulated in PHP itself, and you still end
> > up with a net performance boost.
>
> Considering the quality piece of software that PHP is, I don't hold much
> weight to his comment.
>
> However, he does carry some umpf in certain circles. Perhaps we should
> prove him wrong?
>

I'd like to see you do that... here are the slides from his recent talk
showing why he came up with the statements he made
(http://talks.php.net/show/oscon06/1). Please post the info
when you get comparable performance running from PostgreSQL...

--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

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On 09/14/06 16:03, Simon_Kelly(at)moh(dot)govt(dot)nz wrote:
> pgsql-general-owner(at)postgresql(dot)org wrote on 15/09/2006 04:40:04 a.m.:
[snip]
> As a comment on his points though, isn't it better to use the right tool
> for the job rather than try to force one tool to do everything? I've
> never used a hammer to put in a screw.

You haven't?

All right-minded people know that PostgreSQL is manifestly superior
and that people who want to use MySQL are scurvy dogs.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Is "common sense" really valid?
For example, it is "common sense" to white-power racists that
whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins
are mud people.
However, that "common sense" is obviously wrong.
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> I've
> never used a hammer to put in a screw.

So I guess you're one of those ivory-tower theory-purist academic types, at
least when it comes to home repairs. As a more practical person myself, let
me just say that sometimes a 3lb hammer is exactly the right tool to get a
screw set in quickly ;-)

--
Scott Ribe
scott_ribe(at)killerbytes(dot)com
http://www.killerbytes.com/
(303) 722-0567 voice

> > I've
> > never used a hammer to put in a screw.
>
> So I guess you're one of those ivory-tower theory-purist academic types,
at
> least when it comes to home repairs.

No no. When it comes to everything.

I have read all the books and watched Norm Abraham till my eyes bled.
There's not much I don't know would woodwork and constructing a colonial
American home. Except perhaps the physical aspects, cause I can barely
lift a tea-cup let alone a hammer.

>As a more practical person myself, let
> me just say that sometimes a 3lb hammer is exactly the right tool to get
a
> screw set in quickly ;-)

My girlfriend occasionally mentions putting small screws in with big
hammers. I would retort, but then I would have to stop eating.

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On 09/17/06 16:34, Scott Ribe wrote:
>> I've never used a hammer to put in a screw.
>
> So I guess you're one of those ivory-tower theory-purist academic
> types, at least when it comes to home repairs. As a more
> practical person myself, let me just say that sometimes a 3lb
> hammer is exactly the right tool to get a screw set in quickly
> ;-)

Power, baby, power.

http://www.blackanddecker.com//ProductImages/PC_Graphics/PHOTOS/BDK/POWER_TOOLS/TOOLS/LARGE/3/LI3000_1.jpg

http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=10952

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Is "common sense" really valid?
For example, it is "common sense" to white-power racists that
whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins
are mud people.
However, that "common sense" is obviously wrong.
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Scott Ribe wrote:
>> I've
>> never used a hammer to put in a screw.
>
> So I guess you're one of those ivory-tower theory-purist academic types, at
> least when it comes to home repairs. As a more practical person myself, let
> me just say that sometimes a 3lb hammer is exactly the right tool to get a
> screw set in quickly ;-)

I would love to argue with this, but I just can't. I have more then once
used the following for a major repair:

1. Duct tape (admit it, you all have)
2. A paperclip (got my car started)
3. A hammer (It hurts the wrist less then a screwdriver)
4. Golf tees (used in place of screws to keep my dishwasher in place)
5. Tar sealant (can pretty much seal any leak)

Joshua D. Drake

>
>

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/

A case in point:

When it comes to driving a screw into a material (like wood) in which
the screw creates the mating helix itself when first driven in, you
might find it helpful to hammer a small portion of the screw into the
receiving part, so the screw "gets an initial hold". It is much easier
then to drive it fully in. Note that you do not need a heavy hammer and
in fact, using a heavy hammer in such cases might even be
counter-productive, since you would lose the sense of precision/accuracy
required: you would want to hammer only as much of the screw into the
wood as is needed for the screw to get "an initial hold" in the
receiving material and no more -- if you want to take advantage of the
greater holding power of a mating helix.

P.

Scott Ribe wrote:
>> I've
>> never used a hammer to put in a screw.
>>
>
> So I guess you're one of those ivory-tower theory-purist academic types, at
> least when it comes to home repairs. As a more practical person myself, let
> me just say that sometimes a 3lb hammer is exactly the right tool to get a
> screw set in quickly ;-)
>
>
>

All of my cool witty retorts to all of these posts are being ruined by the
fact that all of my mails are being scrutinized by the moderators first.

Everyone is getting in before me.

Mine are going to seem like the slow witted back-water cousins to these
sharp NY barristers.

pgsql-general-owner(at)postgresql(dot)org wrote on 18/09/2006 10:31:34 a.m.:

> A case in point:
>
> When it comes to driving a screw into a material (like wood) in which
> the screw creates the mating helix itself when first driven in, you
> might find it helpful to hammer a small portion of the screw into the
> receiving part, so the screw "gets an initial hold". It is much easier
> then to drive it fully in. Note that you do not need a heavy hammer and
> in fact, using a heavy hammer in such cases might even be
> counter-productive, since you would lose the sense of precision/accuracy

> required: you would want to hammer only as much of the screw into the
> wood as is needed for the screw to get "an initial hold" in the
> receiving material and no more -- if you want to take advantage of the
> greater holding power of a mating helix.
>
> P.
>
> Scott Ribe wrote:
> >> I've
> >> never used a hammer to put in a screw.
> >>
> >
> > So I guess you're one of those ivory-tower theory-purist academic
types, at
> > least when it comes to home repairs. As a more practical person
myself, let
> > me just say that sometimes a 3lb hammer is exactly the right tool to
get a
> > screw set in quickly ;-)
> >
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
> choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
> match

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>> As a comment on his points though, isn't it better to use the right tool
>> for the job rather than try to force one tool to do everything? I've
>> never used a hammer to put in a screw.
>
> You haven't?
>
> All right-minded people know that PostgreSQL is manifestly superior
> and that people who want to use MySQL are scurvy dogs.

I fear you've jumped the gun, sir - Talk Like A Pirate Day isn't until
tomorrow :-).

> Ron Johnson, Jr.

Tim

--
-----------------------------------------------
Tim Allen tim(at)proximity(dot)com(dot)au
Proximity Pty Ltd http://www.proximity.com.au/

In article <200609152029(dot)00193(dot)xzilla(at)users(dot)sourceforge(dot)net>,
xzilla(at)users(dot)sourceforge(dot)net (Robert Treat) wrote:

> On Thursday 14 September 2006 12:19, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > Arturo Perez wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Any response to this:
> > > http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3631831
> > >
>
> Well first, your subject line is very incendiary and not necessary... I

Well, sorry about that. The article, as written, made it sound like he
said, "First, dump PostgreSQL to increase your performance then..."
>
> That said, in case anyone needs it, here is a benchmark showing postgresql
> scalability vs mysql. interestingly enough it isnt really a database
> benchmark, whether this adds or detracts from it's creditability is up to
> you... http://tweakers.net/reviews/638/4

That's scalability, not speed. Don't know that the PHP/MySQL crowd have
ever crowed about anything except speed. For those not knowing the
difference, scalability is "we can handle 5000 concurrent transactions
with an average response time of 10ms" while speed is "we can make this
transaction complete in 10ms." The difference being that something fast
may fall over if too many transactions occur within too small a window
(deadlocking, thread synchronization overhead, table/row locking, etc)
so that at 5000 concurrent transactions the speed may be reduced to
significantly (as shown in the tweakers.net pages).

> >
> > However, he does carry some umpf in certain circles. Perhaps we should
> > prove him wrong?
> >
>
> I'd like to see you do that... here are the slides from his recent talk
> showing why he came up with the statements he made
> (http://talks.php.net/show/oscon06/1). Please post the info
> when you get comparable performance running from PostgreSQL...

That's what I'd really like to know. Honestly, how does one make pgSQL
go really really fast on a vanilla machine that one is likely to
encounter at a hosting facility?

As a pgSQL enthusiast, I want to see all the things needed to get pgSQL
to the 1500 tps level. Unfortunately, we don't know anything about the
database requirements other than the one query shown in the source
examples.

I'll have to look at the system I recently converted from MySQL to
PostgreSQL and see what I can find...

-arturo

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On 09/17/06 20:07, Tim Allen wrote:
>>> As a comment on his points though, isn't it better to use the right
>>> tool for the job rather than try to force one tool to do everything?
>>> I've never used a hammer to put in a screw.
>>
>> You haven't?
>>
>> All right-minded people know that PostgreSQL is manifestly superior
>> and that people who want to use MySQL are scurvy dogs.
>
> I fear you've jumped the gun, sir - Talk Like A Pirate Day isn't until
> tomorrow :-).

Practice, matey, practice. And a wee tankard o' grog. Or 10.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Is "common sense" really valid?
For example, it is "common sense" to white-power racists that
whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins
are mud people.
However, that "common sense" is obviously wrong.
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Scott Ribe schrieb:
>> I've
>> never used a hammer to put in a screw.
>
> So I guess you're one of those ivory-tower theory-purist academic types, at
> least when it comes to home repairs. As a more practical person myself, let
> me just say that sometimes a 3lb hammer is exactly the right tool to get a
> screw set in quickly ;-)

Old german saying: "hammered-in screw much better than screwed-in nail"

bkw