Re: Is md5 really more secure than crypt?

Yes, I assumed secure hash commutativity was not possible. If it were,
we clearly could reorder things.

In fact, such commutativity seems impossible because a hash is an
abbreviated version of the original value.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom Lane wrote:
> It occurs to me that we could make this work if we had a hash algorithm
> that was commutative, in the sense that
>
> hash(hash(a, b), c) = hash(hash(a, c), b)
>
> for all possible passwords a and salts b, c. Then the idea
> would be:
>
> 1. The value stored in pg_shadow is secret = hash(password, username)
> same as now (or we could use some random salt, but we'd have to store
> that salt too, so the username is probably as good as anything).
>
> 2. During connection start, pick a random salt and send it to the
> client. The client computes response = hash(password, salt) and
> sends it to the postmaster. Then the postmaster computes
> hash(response, username) and hash(secret, salt) and compares these.
> Commutativity would ensure that the values come out equal if the correct
> password is supplied.
>
> An attacker could figure out the value hash(secret, salt) if he'd seen
> pg_shadow --- but if the hash function is strong then this does him no
> good, because he won't be able to compute a response that will hash to
> that target value.
>
> MD5 is not commutative in this sense, and it might be that any hash
> algorithm that is could not be cryptographically strong. But we could
> look around and see what's out there...
>
> regards, tom lane
>

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026